Hello and friendly greetings rackheads!
Today I was strolling in one of the biggest musical instruments shops of my city and I came across this thing: Behringer System 15
In the shop they sell it at €1000,00: you go, pay and bring it home. As you can see, from sweeetwater you can get it for $800 that is more or less €736. I sent a message to know the cost of the eventual shipment but what I would like to know from you is: is this product valuable for an absolute beginner in the hardware eurorack field like me (consider that it is expandable, I can put other modules because it has plenty of empty spaces) or are there other beginner product around the same price that offer more flexibility and space to learn how to deal with hardware?
Thanks in advance for any suggestions! I am so willing to add some hardware to VCV without giving up to one of my kidneys!
UPDATE: sweetwater do not ship in Italy I’ve found the same product from HERE and HERE but the prices are around €920/€1000 so at this point it just the same to buy at my local store rather than having shipped it…
I’d say it is a good option if you want to go hardware to have a Moogish sound for not too much money, because you’ll obviously be able to expand filling those empty HPs, but if you want to mix and match with others the Moog inspired Behringer modules are maybe not the best, (other people with experience please step in to correct me) as they are really meant to be played inside a Moogish system (S triggers, somewhat low levels for eurorack…).
I think the fun and creative part of eurorack is making plans on modular grid and then tiring it all up, changing everything 10 times before saying “THAT IS IT”, and then… You see where this is going… It is the best Tetris on earth if you ask me.
It does not have to be super expensive if you buy second hand, which also makes you take your time and keeps you from loosing too much when you sell modules to buy others, because you will…
What kind of sounds do you want to do ? Do you want a synth voice ? Several ? Sequencing inside the rack or outside ? Effects ? Mixing ?
Well… I’m all in the Dark Ambient, Ambient Industrial, Experimental, some Chiptune, Electro-industrial, Fm Synthesis and this genres of soundscapes so I tend to use more than one VCO, LFO, VCF and of course delay+reverb and, the core of all my patches, chaotic LFOs (possibly with Mathematical formulas like Lissajous curve, Van der Pol oscillator and the such) and random generators. Without forgetting the basic like ADSR, Bernoully gates and switches that I use profusely. Oh, and logic gates AND, OR, NOT etc.
And no samples of any kind, I don’t like to use samples.
That’s my style.
I undersand what you mean, so I guess ebay should be my website rather than other more specialized sites, am I right?
I don’t have any Behringer modules, but I understand them to have replicated Moog’s s-trig format rather than implementing Eurorack’s v-trig format. This means, I understand, that to get the Behringer modules to interface with other modules you will acquire you will need interface modules. See, for example:
You might further note that the Behringer cases are shallow (lower row) and sliding-nut (which I personally detest in my Make Noise case).
I’m not advising you either way (I have often entertained the idea of picking up a full Behringer Moog system but put that on hold when TipTop started their Buchla modules, which are satisfying my ‘vintage’ explorations at the current time, even if they are from the opposite coast).
It’ll take you an hour or two, but I would advise reading this long ModWiggler thread to understand the positives and negatives of these modules:
https://www.modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=226436
That’s good. Still a ‘limitation’ but good that they include it.
It might also be worth noting that Mark Barton has cloned all the Behringer modules on another modular platform if you want to ‘try before you buy’ the hardware (2 week demo available).
I don’t own any Behringer modules but the long rumoured Bode Shifter is actually being manufactured I believe and I will pick it up in a flash when it is released.
Rob Keeble from AM Synths has a detailed look at most of the modules on his site. He’s a big Klaus Schulze fan.
“The Behringer Moog modules are well built and usually aligned and calibrated properly, with only an occasional intervention needed (like VCO Scale). The low cost of each module is attractive but its important to budget for Mixers, Attentuators and Utility modules to augment the core modules, as there are no input level controls.”
He did work with Behringer on the ARP 2500 modules that seem to get positive reviews too.
I started in hardware eurorack with a Behringer case, the 960 module, the big 3 row sequencer, and a few of their System 100 style modules. It was a decent and relatively inexpensive foot in the door as I’d spent less than on one or two of the pricier bespoke modules and I had all the building blocks for synth voices.
But… eurorack is not nicknamed eurocrack for no reason and once I started I found it hard to stop scanning eBay and Reverb for the next ‘bargain’ addition.
If I had my time again I may have not gone out of the box and paid off a few things instead. I thought low interest rates were never going away. D’oh!
Oh, I have looked at that too. I’ve been wanting a close 960 sequential controller clone in VCV Rack, and discussed it on the Rack discord recently. I’d love the whole set like that other platform has. The Moog modular has its quirks, and that influenced some of the music that was made.
From what you’re saying - no, this system is not the right one for you. It’s a somewhat quirky, bulky system, specifically for people going for a very particular (narrow) vintage experience. Behringer quality, not a good starting place. You’ll get bored quickly and feel locked in.
In that price range I would look at the Taiga:
Very flexible, tons of patching opportunity, semi-modular yet completely modular, fantastic build quality and sound quality, 100% eurorack compatible, is basically a eurorack system in a box, and at the same time a eurorack module that you later can put in a case and expand around it, or expand around it with a small eurorack case with effects, additional modulation etc.
It will give you a great and affordable opportunity to learn if eurorack and hardware patching REALLY is for you, and if it is you can very organically build out around it. It’s got everything you need. Look at the specs and the great reviews out there, starting with this one:
For the record, I have owned maybe a dozen Behringer modules for a number of years and the only modules I have had fail are a 2hp Arp and Doepfer SEM which stopped working and a Hampshire Electronics VCO whose tracking went too far out to be adjusted. YMMV of course.
The 2 x 140hp rack case is particularly bombproof and the lower more shallow row is fine for most modern modules. I have two of them and a 104hp skiff plus a different manufacturer’s deeper case for those few modules that need it, mainly Expert Sleepers, 2hp and Doepfer.
I’ve had a few Behringer modules and no problem either.
Actually to start hardware for even cheaper I’d go for a Neutron and a Eurorack Go case, that I’d start filling with utilities and effects (leaving the Neutron outside the case, obviously), and then step by step see what else I’d like.
Rides In The Storm has some really nice modules, and not really more expensive than Behringer… For instance their SED filter is absolutely gorgeous, the DMO is really useful too (dual VCO / LFO), and they have good and cheap basic utilities that just work. It is just one exemple but a lot of brands have good cheap modules that would work for what you want, just take your time, be prepared to buy/sell/trade for a while, don’t get frustrated because something brilliant on paper isn’t exciting IRL, and have fun !
I feel like going hardware when coming from VCV is about the physical interaction and the analog sound, to me at least.
For instance when using VCV I sometime do stupidly complex generative nonsense that would be absurd to try with hardware, and as a matter of facts I never use “notes” or “rhythms” in hardware, I play everything with two hands and a few macrocontrollers (faders and a joystick), and believe me, this is not what I had planned a year ago…
Great advice (better than mine!). I agree that boredom (and GAS!) will quickly set in with the System 15 on its own.
If I were starting in hardware now I would be all over the Taiga. Incredible VFM. The 0-Coast or Moog’s semis are surpassed by this. If you are interested @SkwareUawe I wouldn’t hang about - Pittsburgh have a habit of releasing stuff in short or single production runs, like this extraordinary semi, that a handful of lucky people own:
For the people sniffy about Behringer Pittsburgh Electronics teamed with Cr8audio to produce a couple of eurorack compatible semi modulars, the East Beast and West Pest, that each cost less than the Neutron and have some really good reviews and they have inbuilt sequencers too.
And that’s just to dip my toes in hardware.
I have to say, the prices are quite affordable and the CR8AUDIO look promising, since at the price of one I can grab a couple of things and, given the fact that I probably will be able to couple with VCV, I could create a pretty huge musical landscape, with HW and SW entagled.
I’d be headed for that solution. Someone got some more comment about? I am going to read all the possible documents about the CR8AUDIO products in the meanwhile.
And again, of course, thank you so much for all your ideas!
I’d also take a look at the Minibrute 2S. Though the synth part is not as exciting as Taiga’s, the sequencer is where it really shines. You get to send out four tracks of CV (gates, pitch information, LFOs, envelopes and constant voltages) to control your Eurorack modules. The pads are sensitive to velocity and pressure and fun modulation sources. You can use it as a basic step sequencer or as something along the lines of the Buchla LEM218 or Make Noise 0-Ctrl. Also, it’s cheaper than the Taiga - even more so if you buy second hand - and sounds gorgeous! Overall it is a very capable synth with an intuitive patch bay and plenty of hidden tricks. With the money you save you can get a couple of modules to start with, like an input module (it expects Eurorack levels, so plugging in external instruments is a pain) and a low pass gate. I hope that helped!
Maybe I’ll have a hardware product someday to fill that gap. With the upshot for this crowd being that it’d interface natively to Rack. Still seems a long way away, progress is steady but slow. So far there’s analog VCO and signal processing (VCF/VCA), with more to come.
Yup, I said Taiga because that is the price range you indicated, but I was also going to say (but didn’t) that the two Cr8audio/Pittsburgh modular collaborations, East Beast and West Pest, are two very attractive options if you want to go significantly cheaper. I don’t think you can go wrong with those two. As always, it’s all about your budget
Oh, and if you ask me whether an East Beast + a West Pest has more power and opportunity than a Taiga, my answer will be no. So if your budget IS a £679 synth I would definately say the Taiga. One more thing, since you want shipping to Italy definately look at buying it at thomann.
I’ve found the same product from HERE and HERE but the prices are around €920/€1000 so at this point it just the same to buy at my local store rather than having shipped it…
