Cubase 12 +Audient ID44+ES3/ES6 nightmare

[xaviduch]

Hello! Sorry if I am doing this question in the wrong topic category, but I’m already a little desperate and frustrated and I hope you can help me.

There is no way to get Cubase pro 12/VCV Rack plugin/ES3/ES6/Eurorack hardware, running through an Audient ID44 working well.

When I connect VCV Rack (standalone) through the ES3/ES6 to my Eurorack, it’s a blast…everything works perfectly like silk…that’s when I try to use that setup, same preset etc INSIDE Cubase (as vcv rack plugin) where the nightmare begins…

I have Audient ASIO selected in Cubase since I use many orchestral libraries, VST instruments, etc and I need the fastest ASIO, the Audient one.

I open an instance of VCV rack as an instrument and in the audio modules (AUDIO 16) it allows me the option "Device DAW (1-16 in, 1-16 out) and Ok but, although I can see as “activated” all 16 in and 16 out, only the 1-2 are working, but just like the main output of the master audio module, so I can’t send any CV to my ES3 because it only receives audio…

I have the option to choose WASABI but not with the full 1-16in and 1-16 out, so If I select wasabi to a single pair , it works…sometimes…but I can keep my main DAW output (Audient ID44 1-2 out) as a global mixer output…

It’s complicated but it became unusable so…anyway …

Is there any chance to do it works “normally”?

I am sure the problem comes from Cubase,! but I can’t find any information related to this with this exact setup or similar in Cubase forums and I think maybe you can give me some light on this…I would be very grateful!

p.d I keep the ES6 jumpers out, I tested inside Cubase with and without jumpers and no difference. It works perfectly without jumpers as standalone VCV.

Thanks in advance! any help or clue could be perfect!

Xavier Duch

[Ahornberg]

Is it an option for you to switch to another DAW?

[xaviduch]

Yes, I can switch to Studio one, but the thing is I use Cubase for composing music for multimedia, I use a lot Time warp tool with video etc and It’s the system I am using since early 90…

[Ahornberg]

If you use Studio One, do you run into the same or into a similar problem?

[xaviduch]

I don’t check it with Studio One…it’s a huge project with many different things involved so it could be annoying to swap all to Studio One with success… If it’s not possible to do it with Cubase 12 Pro, then is a waste of money and time! I know ES3/ES6 do their job perfectly but I can’t understand why using ADAT connections available, I can’t choose any valid option in the Audio module…

[Ahornberg]

Have you contacted VCV Support?

VCV - Support

[xaviduch]

No, I thought this must happen to users like me (Cubase) and maybe it’s best to ask through this forum but, I am going to contact with them! Thank you for your time!

[Ahornberg]

I gave it another try but unfortunately Cubase doesn’t have plain multichannel busses like other DAWs or a simple routing matrix like e.g. Reaper or cables like Reason Studio.

In Cubase 12 Pro, the options for busses are:

All these multichannel options do not provide independent mono channels. Cubase is somewhat special here.

Maybe Cubase Support can help?

Or is it possible to run VCV standalone in parallel to Cubase?

I don’t know what you want to achieve with your setup. I think you want to use some Eurorack hardware to produce sound. Is it possible to run this separately, then sample the results and put it on audio tracks inside Cubase? Or maybe record/sample the stuff you want to do inside Cubase with your orchestral libraries and put it into a DAW that works fine with VCV?

[main.tenant]

I use Reaper, but the way I work may work for Cubase too.

I don’t talk directly to the ES-3 or 6 from VCV, for output audio I return the audio to the DAW and then forward that track’s output to the ES-3, for input audio I forward the ES-6 audio from a Reaper track to a particular VCV Rack input(s) and pick it up in the Audio-16 module.

I make use of Reaper’s ability to set a track to work as a send without monitoring too so I don’t have to hear the audio passed through (especially important when passing CV as audio!).

The added latency is barely noticeable as there are no effects or plugins involved inbetween.

[xaviduch]

Hi again, I think the audio routing settings about Cubase you described, are more related to a sound mixing setup config/speakers in a determined kind of process. I mean, when I open Vcv rack as a standalone, it’s perfect. Well, it’s a bit tricky because de ins/outs channel numbers are not the same as in the Audient, for instance, for the first 1-8 adat ins/outs, in vcv rack you get the channel number 1 through in9…but once you get it, it works like a charm.

I can make Cubase and vcv rack (not the plugin) sound at once, the problem is I can’t deliver any audio to Cubase inputs (besides analog ones) through its ADAT inputs coming from my ES6 because those are used by vcv rack!

In a standalone, I can do it! I send all my vcv rack patches through my main 1-2 main output (asio 1-2 as my main outputs) and I can use all of the 8 outputs on the ES-3 and the 6 inputs on the ES6 between my hardware eurorack, midi…so, I think Cubase is blocking something…

[steve]

This problem comes up fairly often and I have never seen anyone post a reliable solution.

The problem is not related to Cubase (it will happen in any PC DAW) but rather the ASIO driver on PC which cannot be shared between applications - so if your DAW is using it, the Rack Pro plugin can’t use it.

In fact it may be that even if you choose a different driver for your DAW (like WASABI) then you still can’t choose ASIO as a driver from the Rack Pro plugin. I’m on Mac not PC so I can’t test that, but iirc that’s what others have said in the past.

See this thread for example:

Vcv in daw can’t send cv to Expert Sleepers

I used VCV standalone together with Expert Sleeper ES-8 to work with my analog gear. To expand my possibilities I switched to pro and use it in Bitwig / Ableton. Now Asio is switched to DAW and I can not send cv out of vcv to the ES-8 which completely beats the purpose of buying pro. As a way around I sent cv to audio tracks and send it to ES-8 from there. But I can’t select mono only stereo busses and it’s messy. There must be an easier way. I hope… (I work on windows 10) Any help is very welco…

[steve]

@xaviduch

I open an instance of VCV rack as an instrument and in the audio modules (AUDIO 16) it allows me the option "Device DAW (1-16 in, 1-16 out) and Ok but, although I can see as “activated” all 16 in and 16 out, only the 1-2 are working, but just like the main output of the master audio module…

The DAW driver in Rack Pro Audio module gives 16 virtual channels of Audio between the Rack plugin and your DAW. When you say you see 16 activated but only 1-2 are working - are you sure? Those other 14 channels will be coming into your DAW as ‘virtual’ rack audio channels - if you don’t set up audio tracks in your DAW to receive those channels, you won’t hear them at all - and once again to be clear they are going to your DAW, not your ES-3.

@xaviduch

so I can’t send any CV to my ES3 because it only receives audio

In Rack, there is no difference between CV and Audio.

You have a couple of issues here I think…

First you want to be able to send out to your ES3-3 directly from the Rack plugin but you can’t - that’s due to the ASIO issue mentioned earlier.

The workaround would probably be as main.tenant stated - send from Rack into the DAW first, using the Rack pro DAW driver, then send out from the DAW to your ES-3

To do that you first need to set up audio tracks in your DAW to receive the extra channels from Rack (channels 3+), and then output those tracks to your ES-3 channels

[xaviduch]

Hello! I understand you…let me try to explain. I think I made all kind of experiments creating inputs and outputs, mono or stereo, just to be synced in someway with what I need to translate (9-10pair in/outs of my second adat port in the Audient are recognized as17-18) So, I can create an audio track, 9-10 inputs assigned, the same for the output…and I can monitor the audio coming through ES6 input 1 from the Moog, with no problems, the same way you can monitor a guitar in the assigned input… The problem comes if I want to use that input inside the VCV (as an instrument track of course) through the same input, it can be the sound or a CV signal coming from Moog or the Performer…nothing works, and if I send that VCA signal to vcv audio 16 module to the 1-2, that CV signal you mentioned (clock, etc) it’s what I achieve…

I don’t know, through WASAPI but in pairs (not the 1-16 ins/outs) it works! sometimes…I tried to emulate what I get as a standalone with different instances of audio 16 modules, just using a pair of inputs or outputs for every single instance! and it works but…sometimes…

I tested with ES6 jumpers in and out because I was answered by Expert Sleepers about removing the jumpers in standalone mode and it works, if not, it creates a sort of -10oct/v to +10 oct/v kind of portamento - glissando effects but, honestly, I don’t know what to do right now…

[Ahornberg]

Do you want to post your VCV patch here, so that we can better understand what you want to achieve? Maybe it is possible to split your patch into several subpatches, and each subpatch can then run in a separate VCV VST instance.

The problem in Cubase is:

• if you use VCV as an instrument, then you have no audio inputs, but you can have up to 16 audio outputs

• if you use VCV as an FX then the number of inputs and outputs must macht with the number of the channels of the audio track (usually 2 ins and 2 outs)

Maybe some Cubase-gurus know some tricks and workarounds, but you may find them in a Cubase-related forum.

[xaviduch]

Hi Steve! Sorry about my delayed response! I am trying to identify one by one all the possible workarounds you mentioned before. I created in Cubase several audio inputs (6)assigned to every different signal coming through ES6 and the same outputs because I understand it’s the only way, ES6 process this signals and can be sent to what I need but nothing changes, except now I can monitor every audio/CV signal incoming, but externally…I mean, outside of VCV (for instance, if I use input 1 (for VCA output of the Moog and the clock signal of my sequencer as input 2 (real 9-10 inputs in my DAW) i can grab on the left channel the Moog sound, and the right channel a typical clock gate signal, very annoying ) but I can’t reach those signals into the Audio 16 module! Arfff…this is exhausting! I don’t speak English very well so…I am gonna try to do more tests based on what you suggested (I am thinking how) but I will keep you informed!

I sent this also to the VCV support team, sent the CPR Cubase and VCV patch files so, fingers crossed!

Many thanks for your help!

[xaviduch]

Yes, thank you! I will share with you the patch but the behavior into the standalone version changes inside Cubase! so if you don’t have Cubase, you probably see another thing and maybe it’s more confusing…

I tested using several instances of the 16 audio module, in WASAPI and by pairs and it worked but, in some cases, I must set DC blocker to ON in the clock and reset pair of signals and suddenly it works bad if for some reason the connection between software and hardware is cut…

Let me do some more tests (Pfffff…) and I tell you if I move on or whatever.

[Ahornberg]

@xaviduch

so if you don’t have Cubase

Im on Windows with Cubase 12 Pro installed.

Maybe share your patch here with us (not with me alone). The community makes the difference

[xaviduch]

This is the patch opened in VCV Rack standalone

[xaviduch]

And this is the same patch inside Cubase as a plugin:

[Ahornberg]

Thank you, but this is only a screenshot of your patch. If you want us to help you, I recommend posting your .vcv file, so that one can load it into Cubase and check what’s not working and maybe find a solution.