I found the pitch tracking didn’t work very well with the Entrian module, but the envelope follower was my favourite. Try Nysthi P2V instead, that’s actually usable if you play carefully. I’ll probably do a guitar synth patch with it at some point!
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Yes, I found the same - Entrian did not track pitch particularly well, but P2V was amazingly good. Surprisingly, the Hot Tuna from Nysthi also can track pitch and output V/Oct, but it does not track as well as P2V.
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I’m gonna have a good look into this thread. Thanks (all) for (all) past and future contributions!
Since I’m terribly incompetent in the field of playing any physical/acoustic instruments, I am pretty much limited by what is achievable with synth/FX programming/control controlled by DAW/sequencers and such. And in VCV all sorts of more basic/elementary constructive and generative concepts as well.
Generally with all this precise machine control, it takes all sorts of tricks to make sound/music more dynamic/interesting. Generally a balancing act between predictability and unpredictability, order and chaos, applied to the time, amplitude and frequency/spectral domains. Also doesn’t help that I have no formal background in any music theory.
But…
Of course there is the fun, curiosity and learning aspect of all this. Alas, just getting yourself all the right tools is not enough. As always, it’s as much about the cook as it is about the kitchen. Getting yourself the highest quality canvas, paints and brushes does not make you a high quality painter.
At some point you need (ever more) knowledge and experience to get you where you wanna go. To both fill your toolbox and know how to use these tools. In all sort of intended and/or unintended ways. This thread definitively supports and promotes this kind of creative process.
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Many variables determine the usability for each tool for specific scenario’s. Each has its pros and cons even if ‘at first sight’ they would ‘do the same’.
E.g. in the thread (below) on PWM / PDM, the PWM implementation of various oscillators yield very different results. In this case probably because of unintended use: PWM at audiorates.
An interesting effect BTW…along with many other signal encoding/decoding algorithms (that can be used and abused).
In another thread I used Sckitam WaveguideDelay, so you can use any oscillator (and potentially any signal) as a Phase Modulation (“FM”) carrier/operator.
Maybe give that a try as an effect.
This module can be a building block for many other effects.
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Yep, I already had plans to try the waveguide PM on my flute. Of course I have LOTS of plans. We’ll just have to see which ones see the light of day, and how long it takes
Haha, same here…
As the description of the WaveguideDelay already states, many effects can be realized using the humble Delay…
Both for a single oscillator/signal as relative phase for multiple (at least 2) oscillators/signals.
You could even do audiorate PWM with any pair of SAW’ oscillators by using the Delay to control the relative phase of SAW and inverted SAW.
Of course you ‘should’ use a pair of perfect SAW’s (to get nice and geometrically nice and straight and ‘rectangular’ pulses). But you could try relative phase shifting at audiorate for any pair (or more) of oscillators/signals.
Thanks, this is an amazing idea! I’ve used the Waveguide delay module before to make chorus/flange but didn’t know you could do this. Gave it a quick try earlier and with VCOs you can get really complex waveforms. With guitar, I just patched a sample in with an old loop and sent the audio output to the delay input, so the audio was modulating its phase with itself, if that makes any sense. I need to read up and understand what’s happening, but it sounds a lot like waveshaping. You get this kind of nice soft phasey distortion which is cool.
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Running the delayed/phasemodulated signal coming from the WaveguideDelay in parallel (mixed in) with the ‘raw’ signal? And phase modulating itself?
I assume the Waveguide output signal is phase shifting the input guitar signal at audiorate, controlled by the amplitude of the same guitar signal (by modulating the delay amount/time at audiorate). That would result in a ‘vanilla’ Phase Modulation (‘FM’) feedback loop, but with an unusual operator.
Refererring to in my beforementioned 'any oscillator as a FM carrier/operator video. You ‘just’ replaced the oscillator(s) with some other signal generator/source and created a feedback loop. Effectively resulting in just one ‘operator’ with feedback, being your guitar signal (I assume).
Mixing the result with the raw signal you do get phaser effects (though modulating/shifting at audiorate). Imagine you replace the ‘usual’ cyclic fixed shape and frequency sine/tri LFO (modulator) with an audiosignal. So, with the modulator running at audiorate. And in case of a guitar signal, the (modulator) amplitude, shape and frequency is changing all the time.
If are you using the output of the WaveguideDelay to modulate the Delay (amount), as I assume you do, you effectively have PM (‘FM’) feedback. Where, as is pretty usual in modulation, the amplitude of the modulation signal determines the amount of modulation, In this case the amount of ‘feedback’.
The resulting (feedback looped) signal (coming out of the WaveguideDelay) soon generates really complex spectral content, spectrally/shapewise very different from the original signal. So mixing that back in with the original can not really be called a phaser, since normally phasers relatively shift phase of 2 or more copies of the same signal, as opposed to 2 or more different signals. But definitely a phaser effect.
Relative phase shifting causes similar effects to PWM (sort of comb filtery effects). As mentioned before, relative phase shifting saw and inverted saw even translates to PWM.
Anyway…
Great to see creativity and exploration at work…
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Kwurqx, here’s how I patched it.
Moving the delay knob to the left produces increasing amounts of waveshaping distortion. Any chance you could share the patch in your video? I got some interesting sounds using VCOs but couldn’t see exactly how you’d patched it.
Cheers
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In my ‘Phase Modulation (any Oscillator) using Waveguide Delay’ video I just do ‘vanilla’ Phase Modulation. Where one VCO/operator modulates another (#3 mods #2 mods #1= carrier in that example).
Basic 2 operator/oscillator Phase Modulation: Connect an(y) oscillator into the In of the WaveguideDelay (acting as the ‘Carrier’) and connect an(y) oscillator to the Delay (input) of the WaveguideDelay (acting as the ‘Modulator’). The Phase Modulated output can be picked up from the Out of the WaveguideDelay.
In your patch, you have the guitar signal connected to the In input (as a carrier) AND to the Delay input (as a modulator). Effectively the guitarsignal replaces both of the usual VCO/operators (most often simple sine generators). Effectively can be seen as using 2 of the same synced complex and dynamic operator/oscillators. One (copy) as the carrier and one (copy) as the modulator at ratio 1:1.
As in my example video you could add a VCA between your signalgenerator (in this case the guitar signal) and the Delay. This way you can control the amount of modulation. Both static (set and forget) and dynamic (voltage controlled).
Might be that adding an (inverted) envelopefollower is an option here (following the amplitude of the guitarsignal) to help control the modulation amount. Louder input will result in more modulation, which could then be dampened by the inverted envelope follower. Modulating a complex signal with another complex (and high amplitude) signal will soon get you into FM Noise territory.
You can also create feedback loops. Connecting the Out back into In and/or into Delay (using a mixer before the inputs to sum/mix the original guitar signal and the feedback signal). You will need to add VCA’s controll-limit the feedback amount or you will soon get into FM Noise territory (even sooner). If you use something like the Fundamental mixer you get a VCA per channel and a VCA at the main output.
You could also put a compressor/limiter in the modulation path to dampen the modulation amount. And/of a Low pass filter (or crude fast slew limiter) to limit the high frequency amounts in the modulation signal.
Remember that Phase Modulation generates sum and difference frequencies for all frequencies in both signals (where difference frequencies ending up below 0 Hz are reflected back into the audible spectrum, but at inverted phase). So, spectral wise, things can get out of hand real quick when using complex spectra as carriers and/or modulators. Especially at (dynamic and potentially) high modulator amplitudes.
All this without changing the ratio beyond 1:1 yet, which you could try, e.g by using a pitch shifter or similar ‘detuner’ on the modulator signal
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Hey kwurqx,
Thanks for the explanation. Haven’t done anything else with guitar but I’ve been playing around with waveguides and oscillators. Don’t usually do drones but this was fun!
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Having fun is what it’s all about!
…unless you have to/want to make a living out of it and have other people (and their money) determine what you should or should not do…
BTW…
You could use these concepts in more subtle ways…just as an (added) effect. Either 100% (low modulation levels) or mixed in at some ratio with the original signal (e.g. at 1% amplitude). Phase Modulation is just a ‘special case’ of ‘waveshaping’. Just like overdrive, wave folding, ringmod/AM etc. Where you can ‘play’ with the incoming signal (modulator) and/or the transformation (carrier/transferfunction) to see what evenytually comes out the other end (audiosignal)
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Maybe on or off topic but I have created a patch in the style of a EMS Synthi Hi Fli, was wondering if it would be any use for your guitar Effects projects, it uses Macro and Resonator as the guitar source in the patch. It has a six effects in a vague rendition of the Hi Fli guitar Multifx style. Here it is:
Synthi Hi fli switched.vcv (6.9 KB)
Audio to follow
Stream Synthi Hi Fli -many tones by Adrian Bottomley | Listen online for free on SoundCloud
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Sorry Ady, forgot to reply but couldn’t get anything useful out of that with guitar. It was just a bit too noisy and distorted for my taste! Anyway, here’s the latest iteration of my ‘FX morphing’ idea inspired by the old Lexicon Vortex hardware.
Not the best demo, but I think the patch probably deserves a few more videos. At some points it makes sounds where I’m not even sure which effect it was! If I get time, I’d also like to do a tutorial video explaining how it works.
There’s a longer demo here too:
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Thanks , shame you couldn’t get anything out of the ‘Synthi Hi Fli’ patch. C’est la vie! Is the ‘FX Morphing’ one above available as a patch or are you still refining it?
Still refining it, I have a few more bits of control to add (like some attenuation on the Soundstage modulation) and a few more ‘presets’ for the Transit slots. I’m not sure it will ever be finished! Could share a work in progress if you want though. If you don’t have Soundstage you’d have to wire in another reverb and bind it to Transit. You can get some cool sounds morphing through different size/decay settings with Plateau too. It’s designed for live input, but I think I included a sampler and mixer so you can chuck other sounds through it if you don’t play an instrument.
Here you go, uploaded anyway. Please read the disclaimer 
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Thank you kind sir, see if I can get my head around all them LFOs and other myriad things!
Here’s another one, using the external audio input of Rings:
Demo:
The video uses a Juno-6 for audio input, but it was originally for guitar and obviously you can patch anything you want through it, that’s the great thing. Turning off the VCOs and sending noise through makes cymbal/gong/belltree sounds. For pitched sounds, set the quantiser to the same key you’re playing in.
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