Dedicated Stereo Widener Plugin needed with Multi-band support and selectable crossovers and outputs

Plugins & Modules
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Hi All!

I am new to the forums. This is my first post. So a quick introduction. I’ve been getting into VCV Rack Pro in December of 2023. Just wanted to go Pro straight away because of the VST3 support, I never used the free version before, but my guts told me this was some great software worth the purchase, this I combine with a comprehensive workflow in Cubase Pro. Since December 2023 I have binge watched Omri Cohen’s YouTube channel full of awesome and very useful tutorials to learn the program. And now feel like I can be creative enough to create my own patches, started developing my own workflow etc.

So my question to any developers of modules & plugins is basically to create a dedicated Stereo Widener plugin. I know of the Mindmeld Collection which is an amazing collection (even bought the Shapemaster Pro to support the developer), and it’s mixer’s stereo width functionality. I am also aware of the Bassmaster Plugin, which does do some stereo widening, but I can’t push it too much for what I need. I really like the crossover functionality in that plugin, but sometimes (very often actually) I need it to go wider. Don’t get me wrong, I think the Mindmeld collection is one of the best collections out there.

Is there any chance anyone could develop a dedicated Stereo Widening plugin, with perhaps Multi-band support, so you can have the bass set to 0 width, mids, high, and an air band. Preferly with a max frequency response of about 0hz to 40Khz, and adjustable crossover frequency per band.

It would be really cool to have 4 (or 3 or even more) individually controllable and separate bands each with their own crossover frequency selection, with a spread of of 0 to for example 400%, perhaps even 800% (yeah I know that sounds crazy, but sometimes it’s really what I need). I know that Bassmaster only goes up to 200% but sometimes that just isn’t enough, in most cases it’s not for my use cases.

Perhaps include an overall stereo out for all bands, and even incorporate separate stereo outputs for each channel of the Multi-band channels, so you can mix/process each band individually with for example compressors etc. And sum them later with dedicated mixer, and route that to the main mixer.

That’s basically what I am looking for at the moment, and feel is missing in the collection of plugins (I have about 2165 plugins installed, but can’t find any plugin that does just this).

My thanks would be great, and would even be willing to pay for a plugin like this if the price is right (30 USD is a bit expensive for a single plugin, but I’d still buy it).

Many thanks in advance, and looking forward to hearing any feedback, solutions, input and suggestions. I could even help mocking up a GUI design for this as guideline (however I lack the skill of coding it myself).

Looking forward to your input and comments!

Kind regards, Levien

A happy VCV Rack user :smiley:

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Unfiltered Audio have a frequency band splitter:

Buy that plus Host-FX, then run the individual bands into a VST plugin for stereo widening? I have the Waves one somewhere which they were giving away free a while ago. Several decent free ones too. I also have the VST plugin version of this, but can’t remember if it does widening too:

Worth a look,

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For stereo widening you can use the Stereo / Wider FX in the Airwindows collection:

You can also run your signal through a chain of more than one modules to get a deeper widening effect.

Personally, I would use mid-side-processing for widening or narrowing individual frequency bands. But you can do even more than simply widening the signal by using different FX on the mid channel and on the side channel. Maybe check out this video by @Omri_Cohen:

I would not create such dedicated modules (e.g. a combination of a frequency splitter and a stereo widener) because in modular synthesis, ideally every module should do only one thing and it should be usable for more than one purpose. And it is up to the users to combine modules to create that sounds and FX they want to build. Keep in mind: This is VCV, not VST :sunglasses:

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I would echo what Ahornberg said:

This is VCV, not VST :sunglasses:

You can build you own patch for this. I will also echo that my first thought is that your goal is best done thru Mid-Side.

If I were building this patch, I would use docB’s brickwall filter to break out the individual bands. Well, in your case for 4 bands, that would be 8 instances of BWF:

Now you can modulate the crossover points with another 16 cables and probably push your resulting sound farther than you wanted. So now you need to tame it in a multiband way? I think Oppressor Pro is another paid module that is well worth it:

library-search-oppressor

Good Luck!

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There is a frozen wasteland multi band compressor / expander.

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I’ve actually used this precise setup recently and it works really well. BWF is also polyphonic, so you can process in stereo. Such a handy module!

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Thanks everybody for your useful input and feedback!

And yes I know this VCV and not a VST :rofl: :innocent:

Love all the feedback I am getting, which is very useful. I still have to watch the Omri Cohen tutorial on the M/S module by VCV. I watched the first 5 minutes or so and it’s really interesting and useful.

But @Ahornberg that is actually a really cool module, which I have not yet noticed before, so I added it to my collection. Very useful effects processor from what I could tell at first glance playing with it. Perhaps I can daisy chain a few together for an even wider sound.

@VirtualModular That is also a really nice module! Very useful indeed, perhaps couple that with the Airwindows plugins to process the different bands. But I’ve got so many still yet on my wish list that I want to buy, so it will definitely be bought some day. I think I might start out with the Host Plugin to see where VST’S can take me.

I also know that there is the LALA plugin by Studio Six Plus One (VCV Library), which also has a crossover functionality:https://library.vcvrack.com/StudioSixPlusOne/LalaStereo.

It seems that I have to explore the Mid/Side modes a bit more. @waldo and try out the The Brickwall Filter and thanks @auretvh for confirming this might be good solution.

@Squinky I have all the frozen wasteland plugins, but I couldn’t find the one I think you meant. Could you tell me the name of the plugin?

I will do some trial and erroring, and see if I come up with a patch that does what I want it to do, whenever I am happy, I will share the results.

I’ll keep you guys posted!

Thanks all!

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Here’s a quick tip to line up the frequency knobs on a couple of BWFs:

BWF frequency bands
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If you use PLC and then split out the voltages, you can adjust the bands automatically using only PLC. What is also nice is the knobs on the BWF automate as you adjust the knobs on PLC, so you can get the exact frequencies. Here’s a patch to play with:

BWF frequency.vcv (1.6 KB)

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This one:

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Agreed! One limitation that I keep hitting my head against with many modules, is that the audio is polyphonic (or at least that is to say the main input/output is polyphonic), but the CV parameters are not. So I still end up using numerous instances.

Nothing against docB or any of the other wonderful developers. But it is not a very long list of the modules that DO utilize a poly signal for the parameters. The Surge library is one, and I have a fair amount of fun with 16 varied v/oct notches on the Filter module.

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You might be the person that would care about this – one thing I investigate with any of these crossover or bandpass filters is: does it null?

BWF and Lala do both null. Lala is a gentle 6 dB/oct slope. EqMaster also nulls.

Null meaning, if you engage one instance of the filter with setting A and another instance of the opposite of A, then sum the two audio signals, one with phase flipped (and any necessary sample delay), do they sum to zero?

Most of the other EQ or crossover type filters I’ve tested in VCV do not. Not that there’s any right or wrong about any of this…I use Vult Decline very often, but it’s definitely not transparent.

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Thats a very good point. Thanks for looking into that

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You need a Linkwitz–Riley filter:

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I find that most parameters do work in polyphonic modules, you just need to send them poly CV. Maybe the issue is the GUI only shows the settings of the first channel? Try something like Bogaudio Polycon to set precise values on each channel. I don’t know about BWF, but things like filters certainly produce different settings on each channel if you send them something like a poly LFO. This is my favourite trick in VCV at the moment - polyphonic filter mod, vibrato and effects. :wink:

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Maybe also consider stereo widening especially for headphones:

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The youtube channel of Dan Worall offers a wealth of knowledge. Highly recommended.

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Ooh, do you have a list?!

I’m saying my frustration (lower case F, again, every free module is a blessing) is that you feed poly signal to the CV input for some parameters, and only the first channel of that is applied to all 16 signals in the main in/out.

I’m perfectly clear on what comprises a polyphonic vs 1-channel send.

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Ha ha, are you saying you’ll develop some?!

LR, Butterworth – yes, I’m an old analog live sound guy…I couldn’t build those crossovers from scratch, but probably can identify them by ear.

Probably going off topic, but it’s fascinating how things have advanced…the old tradeoff used to be – it can sound musical and transparent or have a steep slope: pick One.

Now the equation is: transparent/ steep slope / no latency. So we have BWF which satisfies the first 2, but a significant but consistent latency, which can be compensated for.

FFT doesn’t solve everything, but some things for sure!

Anyway, as long as I’m still off topic, thanks to you too for the great modules! Haven’t spent much time with Tape Recorder, but i do with simpliciter…there was a thread this week about your module, so I’m gonna invest some cycles there this weekend.

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:wink: