VCV isn’t the license holder of the graphics. Could you at least spend 15 seconds reading the license before attempting to copy things? If you still can’t figure it out, hire a lawyer.
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Yes. I did. Thanks for the reminder.
The Component Library graphics for Rack are copyright © 2019 Grayscale and licensed under CC BY-NC 4.0. Non-commercial use is allowed with appropriate credit and indication of the original license.
The visual design of the Core modules is copyright © 2019 Grayscale and licensed under CC BY-NC-ND 4.0. Commercial use and derivative works are not allowed.
As you are the contractor for this work and his website doesn’t have an imprint or other website with an email address for contact, I though this is the obvious and easy choice to ask (because I know of all the drama that happened with BSD 3 stuff) and I clearly don’t wont to repeat this drama or cause more trouble. I’m just asking for the proper way to do it.
There is an email address on Grayscale’s website. It’s not hard to find.
Thanks. Found it, and wrote him. Nevertheless I’m going to create panels from scratch. So I don’t have to wait for his answer. I just follow the tutorial from the Panel Guide and create my own panel, material design style
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Hi Rainer,
why are you forking the entire application, and building the module layouts?
You could like i once did with Bogaudio, ask the developer/creator for permission to edit the SVG files. Then if granted permission you can publish those files in a repo at github, with only a zip file containing those files and instruction on how to replace the original ones etc.
While in the meantime keep on advocating and waiting patiently until the developer/creator chooses to make the theme part of their plugin?
Hope this helps,
goodluck with the effort 
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Hey @theshoemaker thanks for asking about the right way to do something like this. Your dark theme looks good and I appreciate you taking the time to put this together. @vortico and I have already discussed adding a dark theme for VCV plugins (there’s a screenshot in this thread for example) and we might implement something like this one day for the Fundamentals and other modules.
Unfortunately as @vortico has mentioned the CC BY-NC-ND license does not allow derivative works. The VCV logo is also a registered trademark and shouldn’t be used without permission.
So I would prefer if you kept this repo private. Not only will it be redundant if we end up adding a dark theme for VCV modules eventually, but when you distribute this material to others it may appear that the material was created/supported/endorsed/approved by VCV. Personal use is not a problem of course. It’s only a problem when derivative material is shared with others. Others may take your material and use it in a commercial product for example. We have no way of enforcing that violation of the license if the material is located in a repo that we do not control. You will inherit numerous problems and responsibilities by using copyrighted material in this way.
As for recreating the module designs from scratch in your design software, using the original vector graphics from the SVGs and and the position data and so on is not the problem. The problem is whether the final product looks like the original design. Recreating copyrighted material from scratch – such as typing out a chapter of a book instead of copying and pasting it from a website – does not automatically give you unique rights to the original material. If the final product is substantially similar to the original then it’s probably still a derivative work.
Okay. So a private repo ist fine. Check. Thanks
So now the question is. What would be necessary to do in order to have a legal and non infringing fork? If I have to create my unique custom design from scratch … then I probably also have to touch the source code more to rearrange the inputs/outputs and params. Which is fine for me.
I wouldn’t mind doing this. I joust though it would be more honorable to mention where this all comes from and honor the design instead of completely changing it.
But if you guts feel better about this one. Then I’m going to maintain a complete different fork of the fundamentals and core with the proper attribution and a complete redesign applying some material design principals.
I just though it would be nice to get you guys on board and agree to something. Whatever I end up its gonna be legal, because I don’t want to scratch anyones work or have issues regarding this.
Thanks for taking the time responding. I’ll keep you guys posted, when I’m done with the redesign.
For example this one here is it really necessary to rearrange the ports?
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Bottom line here is that there probably isn’t a legal and compliant way to mod the core and fundamental panels and distribute them publicly in a way that keeps everyone happy. I imagine anything you might want to do would be considered derivative in some way.
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There is code and there are svg graphics under resources. The graphics are distributed under the mentioned CC. Which I won’t touch at all. I don’t even do derivative work. I don’t recreate something. I’m just going to use the gpl3 code and release it again as asked in the license.
Can’t be so difficult to maintain a fork of a open source project, if I do what is asked. I’l just going to create a panel from scratch. If the creators still think it’s derivative I’m also going to touch the positions of the ports and parameters and create a complete custom layout
Bottom line for me is why is this still a conversation? Bogaudio have done it, Count Modula, Impromptu, Stoermelder etc etc
People clearly appreciate the option, it’s not difficult, why can’t VCV do it?
You need to respect decisions of people who make a living out of this. I’m just going to ask what is necessary to have a legal fork with the features I like. And that is dark theme. That’s the beauty of open source. You can just fork and add. If the maintainer likes your work you can have it merged into main line. If they don’t like it I keep maintaining my fork.
Just thinking in another direction: How about a module which modifies the appearance of the modules of Fundamental and Core on the fly? No new panels and no derivative work, just replaced colors at runtime, maybe adjustable by user? Wouldn’t this be a way to avoid the licensing issues?
Don’t get me wrong, no way I will do such a thing as I’m happy with the panels how they are, but maybe someone wants to jump on it…
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What would be necessary to do in order to have a legal and non infringing fork?
CC BY-NC-ND allows others to publish the original material if credit is given, if the usage is non-commercial, and if the original material is unchanged. This means there’s no way to publish a non-infringing fork if the design has been changed. Changing the design inherently violates the “ND” (No Derivatives) clause of the license.
But keep in mind that this license is only for the visual design of the Fundamental and Core plugins. The source code is licensed under GPL. So if you want to create alternative versions of the VCO or the ADSR or other modules, that’s acceptable. I would suggest making your derivatives as different from the originals as possible so that there is no confusion about their origins. This potential confusion is the primary reason why this license was chosen. Nobody should be using a third-party module (which might have bugs or design quality issues) and confuse it for being an official VCV module.
I’ll give an example of how to approach this in an acceptable way: AS SEQ-16. Obviously the layout is based on the Fundamental SEQ-3 but the module name, layout, functionality, and visual design (including the logo/branding) is clearly different. So even though it’s a derivative work on some level, there is no potential confusion about this being an official VCV module.
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Bottom line for me is why is this still a conversation? Bogaudio have done it, Count Modula, Impromptu, Stoermelder etc etc
People clearly appreciate the option, it’s not difficult, why can’t VCV do it?
I appreciate the option too, see my link in my post above. The dark panels for Fundamental modules have already been designed. I actually started designing them years ago and have maintained a “shadow” version of each module as new additions to the Fundamental plugin have been made.
But that’s a separate issue from copyright/licensing questions. This is a technical platform-level decision for Andrew to make. He evaluated a “dark mode” proposal in this Github thread but ultimately rejected it. Although some developers have implemented this on their own, we probably won’t add dark themes for our modules until there is some type of universal standard for doing so at the platform level.
Bottom line for me is that if we’re not ready to release dark versions of our modules, other people should respect that. If the lighter theme is hard for someone to stare at for hours, they can make local changes for their own use, but should not insist on repackaging my work for public consumption when the terms of the license make it pretty clear that doing so is not allowed.
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In this instance, I’ve more respect for the developers that give us so much great quality free stuff AND the option to change module appearance.
As I’ve stated in the dim & distant past, I have vision issues, I simply cannot tolerate bright backgrounds for any length of time, hence going to the effort of editing every single VCV svg so I can use them comfortably. Why VCV won’t provide this as an option I just don’t understand.
No … wait a second. Derivate work means I do something based on your design. Yes or no?
Yes. So if I were to slightly modify your design and distribute it as yours or mine or some else I’d infringe. Totally agree. So I don’t do that.
We cleared the graphics part and design part.
Now I fork the code of the modules and create a complete different design. That’s not derivative. We have two licenses. A license for graphics and design and one for the codebase. Like I
So I just don’t understand you guys, why you don’t like people helping you with professional work to create features for users who are asking for this. I event wouldn’t mind creating this signing an NDA and giving it away for free to the authors of the plugin. I just want to make it happen, that despite of Andrew not seeing potential in several features some others do.
So my thought was … hey it’s open source. I can contribute. And Andrew clearly stated out that he rejected dark theme in the proposal. Like mentioned in the beginning. I’m not interested in stealing. I’m interested in giving. This sometimes really hits me by surprise when I’m offering something and people think I want to steal or harm someones reputation by my work. I’m a professional Senior Fullstack Developer with a good sense for UI and Design with a paygrade probably beyond most of what people think is possible.
So all I’m asking is: Doing something good for the community with the proper devotion and quality. But if this is something that is going to start a war I stop wasting my energy and spend it on doing something usefull.
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As I’ve stated in the dim & distant past, I have vision issues, I simply cannot tolerate bright backgrounds for any length of time, hence going to the effort of editing every single VCV svg so I can use them comfortably. Why VCV won’t provide this as an option I just don’t understand.
Vision issues are IMO a good argument for a universal “dark mode” standard. Many apps (desktop and mobile) and operating systems are doing this. Actually implementing it at the platform level in Rack, where there are 2,300 modules from about 175 different developers, is the challenge.
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That’s not what we’re asking for, just doing it for VCV modules is easy. Pick a volunteer developer, pick an already existing open source solution from whoever, choose a colour scheme, do the closed source stuff yourselves, publish when happy, end of problem.
Now I fork the code of the modules and create a complete different design. That’s not derivative. We have two licenses. A license for graphics and design and one for the codebase.
Right, that’s what I mentioned above. Two separate licenses. As of yet I have not seen a “completely different design” from you. I can only react to the images that you posted at the top of this thread, which is obviously derivative of the original work and uses the VCV Rack logo.
So I just don’t understand you guys, why you don’t like people helping you with professional work to create features for users who are asking for this.
It’s not that simple. With all respect, I don’t need your help – I have already created dark panel versions of all the Fundamental modules. The larger problem, as I just mentioned in my response above, is one of a technical nature which is up to Andrew to solve (or to ignore if he chooses, as this is just one of a huge number of feature requests for Rack).
So my thought was … hey it’s open source. I can contribute. And Andrew clearly stated out that he rejected dark theme in the proposal. Like mentioned in the beginning. I’m not interested in stealing. I’m interested in giving.
I am sorry that you spent so much time designing these dark panels, but if would have been better to ask permission first instead of presenting a fully-formed solution in a public forum without knowing that it was 1) a violation of the license, 2) something that we had already designed, and 3) something that has already been discussed extensively.
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Given the 2,300 modules and 175 developers, I’m not sure a platform level solution is a workable approach (from a practical standpoint) or even a desirable one if that means dark panels from all developers would be exactly the same colour. Even if it is, would a simple context menu dark theme option for core and fundamental panels (as implemented by the other developers mentioned) not be a good stop-gap for those with vision issues in the meantime - particularly as your dark panel designs already exist?
Agree with pretty much everything everything else you have said - just can’t wrap my head around why there needs to be platform-level implementation before a VCV dark theme can be released.
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