You can also get a sine out of Tidal Modulator with the integrated smoother and shape it. I haven’t measured it but I expect it to be antialiased very well, since it’s the original mutable instruments hardware code.
For other types of symmetry and much more there’s XFX Wave, which is completely free of aliasing.
I also wish there would be one oscillator that does everything, phase control and linear FM would be on my wishlist for VCV VCO… but in the end you usually also get a better sound if you use different VCO’s for different tasks, since they complement each other better with their subtle differences and you end up with a fuller mix of flavours.
Hi guys I have a new task.
I state that I have finally managed to get my x3 crossfade to work by putting two two-input crossfades in series. In this way I am finally able to achieve the smooth transition between ramp, triangular and saw, even if not literally changing the symmetry. I wanted to share the patch but unfortunately as a new user I can’t do it.
That said I’m still trying to get rid of the aliasing generated by the FN-3 so that I can really do something about the symmetry adjustment as such. Furthermore, that module is also convenient for the presence of the bipolar phase regulation.
I ask you a very simple thing at this point:
do you know a way to flip the wave, in order to move the alias from the inside to the outside corner of each peak of the wave itself?
I don’t need a simple reversal.
I wish I could delete the alias with a limiter, but to do this I need the alias to be outside the waveform
Pretty sure that’s not how aliasing works… that’s not what you are seeing on the scope and aliasing is not something you can ‘delete with a limiter’ (even if that little distortion at the top of the triangle was on the outside).
Aliasing is essentially the generation of inharmonic frequencies and therefore to see aliasing you need to be using a frequency analyser, not a scope.
Here’s probably everything and more you will ever need to know about aliasing:
Although if you do want a bit more, this video of Dan’s talks about the best way to visualise aliasing:
Hi @marco.male.music ,
You have probably tried these approaches already, but this is how I would go about it.
(Given that I’m limited to one oscilator).
If you just want to crossfade between SAW/TRI/RAMP, there are a few ways to do it, heres one:
Thank you so much for the attemp to help me, the first patch has been really useful to make easier the one I thought and the sound resulting is really smooth.
The second patch unfortunately sound too much different from tri wave shapes so I won’t can use it for my goal.
But, referring to the first one, do you think that sound is really similar to the try pw modulation? If you say yes to me I will convince myself too continue using the x3crossfade and I will stop searching for a way to realize it working on the Simmetry.
Another question: do you know a polyphonic module that could change the phase of a wave in a bipolar way? I ask because it is another function I would like to have on my synth and doing it with delay doesn’t make me able to work with precision on a single wave cycle. (for this reason FN-3 was so freaking good if only there wasn’t the aliasing: it made me change tri pw and wave phase. I’m crying so f*cking much I swear)
To be honest, crossfading is not the same as PWM, but if you like the sound, use it. I think anything you do to try to modify a wave (at audio rates) will introduce artifacts, fading between them is cleaner, but has not got the same effect as PWM. The FN3, as with all function generators, works well at LFO rates but not at audio rates, so if you plan on using it to modify an envelope or LFO it will work perfectly. I consider @steve and @Squinky brilliant developers with a much deeper knowledge of DSP and audio than I could ever dream of, so you should really use their advice. But at the end of the day, if the aliasing is getting you down, just use a low pass filter to try to hide it. Good luck on your journey and please upload your synth once you are done with it, it sounds like it could be very interesting.
Man you just gave me a damn nice idea! Maybe I’m seriously freakin’ up but… I just tried using FN-3 with VCO brang to sub-audio rate and finally saw a wave shape absolutely alias-less. Please say to me that you know a method to bring back the wave frequency to higher values once it’s out from the FN-3.
I know they’re very good. Unfortunately their solutions would make my patch too complex for what I need, but I learnt a lot thanks to them in these days.
Once I will solve this problem I will upload the patch o’ my Synth setup, I Swear
Thanks, I appreciate the sentiment, but just for the record I have absolutely zero knoewledge about DSP I’m more on the concept and design side. Squinky Labs on the other hand most certainly does.
haha - probably not quite, though. I think you know that if you run a signal though a non-linear function that there is the potential for a lot of aliasing.
Before people knew the truth, I remember people would say “oh, computer programming, that sounds interesting, but don’t you need to know a lot of math”? And I would say “No. At most of my jobs I’ve been the best person at math, and that’s only because I actually remember the stuff I learned in high school and can still do it.”
haha, yes, I know of these maths. I had a (very young) co-worker who we addressed as “doctor”. a) because it was funny b) he had a PHD, c) he was from the UK, and knew maths.
As I promised, here’s the patch (I will never stop to upgrade it but this is at a nice point):
Legend:
RED audio
GREEN modulators
YELLOW logic codes
BLU keyboard CV
PURPLE metering
The first row is structured for the melodic lines. A central oscillator is flanked by one used for the reinforcement of the fundamental. The two lateral oscillators can be used to enrich the sound and generate slight specular detunings, thanks to the offset generator connected to the FM input of both and sent to each with opposite sign.
In the rows below there are 4 pairs of lateral oscillators. Each of the pairs can be mirrored as explained above (interesting and very detailed modulations can be made in my opinion, to justify the size of so many sound sources.
Each oscillator (except the two central ones) is equipped with octave and phase adjustment.
Each signal routed into the central mixers (to adjust their relative level) is then sent to a panner and the output of each panner is routed into two pairs of mixers to reach the stereo output of the patch.
Each LFO receives its clock connected to an octave regulator for doubling or halving the bpm, such as the sequencer and the random generator.
In the patch there are also a noise generator and 4 switches to use with imagination.
You can use MindMeld Shapemaster as a Waveshaper. Even the free version.
Connect your “phase modulator” / “phasor” (envelope or oscillator or whatever) to the T/G input.
Set Range to -5V/+5V and Trigger to CV (bipolar control of the “read head” position/phase).
Draw any waveshape / transform function (symmetrical/asymmetrical, anything)
The resulting shaped “shape” (signal) can be picked up from the CV output.
Jakub Ciupinski has a series of videos on ShapeMaster where this (and much more) is demonstrated.
This way you can also just draw any waveshape in Shapemaster and then control the “read head” with a mathematically perfect Saw (45 degree straight line). It will then just scan the wave “linearly” as if it were a wave from a wavetable. Effectively creating any oscillatorshape.
But…beware…just drawing any shape and scan/output it gives you little control over the actual frequencies (spectrum) you will generate. Including way to high frequencies that might lead to aliasing. Especially if there are “sharp” discontinuities in the “wave”.
Of course you can also chain ShapeMasters. E.g. so you can also determine/manipulate the shape of the “phasor” (any shape different from linear/saw). E.g. have one set up as the waveshaper transfer function and another as the oscillator shape.
You could of course also just mix/crossfade channels.
Anyway, it will give all sorts of “oscillator” / “waveshaper” options you might like to explore.
E.g. PWM can achived by waveshaping a square. A saw for a “phasor” will give you the 50% pulse. A curve upward (or downward) will change the pulsewidth.
EDIT: BTW “PWM” could be applied to any waveshape this way…
Maybe better stop here. Already way too many words.
Just one more:
ShapeMaster is not polyphonic as an “oscillator”. But it has multiple channels. You could use SPLIT/MERGE to connect a channel per voice.
I’m more on the concept and design side. Squinky Labs on the other hand most certainly does.