So I’m very interested in drones, and there are of course a thousand ways to create and layer very interesting drones in VCV. But for training, I wanted to try replicating, as faithfully as possible, a true life bagpipe drone - I’m using this sample here as reference : Freesound - Highland Bagpipes Drones by iainmccurdy (I wanted to try my hand at this after seeing this video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HU8Jm6pNS0)
I have tried different approaches, that all have given me fairly interesting drones, but their sound texture is often a bit different (though interesting). My best results so far have been using D’ACCHORD module, and using PW modulation on square waves over sine waves to give the phasing effect + odd harmonics, mixing a bit of noise and reverb, and its cool. Another thing that works out pretty well is using the Ouros module as a base, putting some feedback and modulation on the stereo phasing, putting multiply to a number close to 1.2 to give a rotating effect, and it’s cool. So, for the phasing element, I think I now have a fairly good idea of how to proceed. Of course, adding tons of reverbs and granulators gives the feeling of having a bagpipe drone, though it’s also easy to go overboard and completely ruin the timbre of your drone with layers of blur.
I have the feeling that the sound texture here and other variations in timbre could be recreated fairly closely by Fm-OP, but everytime I tried to use them my results were too far away from the original sample. Also, I feel like there are timbre elements I am missing, since most Highland bagpipes say that the material properties of the cane reed deeply affect the sound, though I’m not sure yet how, as I don’t have experience with the original instrument. I tried using a spectrogram to see if it was something I could see, but I’m not sure.
My questions are :
what are the best ways to study and “copy” audio samples, and is there litterature/references on this question ? I’m looking for sorts of methodological approaches. So far, I’ve mostly been using tools like filters, spectrograms, scopes to try and see the specificities of the sound, but I’m looking for step by step guidance in the process of analysing, designing and reconstructing the sound.
How can we approach the feeling of sound going through materials, and the qualities it adds to the timbre ? Most ressources I’ve read seem to imply the reed material and the poach atmosphere change the timbre of the sound, and I’ve been curious at how to replicate that. This feels like it’s different from physical modeling synthesis, like Plaits ; it’s less about the exciter, and more about the qualities of air inside the environment that is the bagpipe poach.
Have their been extremely faithful recreations of drones in electronic music before that I not know of ? I feel like most approaches of drones are aimed at synthetizing something new rather than recreating something existing, which is incredible, but I’m really trying to go for faithfulness here, and see what I can learn in the process.
Hmm, the chat here won’t let me upload wav or mp3.
The .txt file here is an mp3. Too lazy to post this on patchstorage, so just change the file extension for anyone who wants to hear the lovely highland sounds.
Too lazy to figure out how to post audio properly…too lazy to clean up the patch for presentation.
The Big Button at the bottom (am I the only one who uses that lovely Nysthi module?) was the start of trying to create the pitch slur lead-in as the pipes start blowing. Then I got bored, ha ha.
Thanks for the patch !! I love how faithful this feels, it’s really close to that reed like feeling I was looking for, I’m gonna take a closer look at it this weekend to see all that I can learn ! Thanks a bunch !
Sorry the patch is so messy! I didn’t imagine anyone would try to work with it.
Anyway, one thing mentioned in the thread on modwiggler listed above is that bagpipes are tuned to something close to just intonation A mixolydian. So a scale of that sort is “authentic”.
There’s an offset of -0.07 somewhere in my intonation, to match the AC DC tuning.
Wow - really impressive sound! The only thing that doesn’t sound quite right is the rest in the chanter part at the end/beginning of the phrase - as far as I know, that is not possible with the pipes. I think the rest should be replaced by a grace note or two.
Of course we are I’ve added an envelope for the Chanter and Patchmaster controls to tune the three drones and switch just the drones of and on. I’ve got the drones tuned (roughly, because it sounds better) to A3, A4 and A5 (220, 440 and 880hz).
I added fades on the drones so when you start them up they come in a slightly different times which sounds more authentic.
We might have to agree to disagree. I was trying hard to match the sound on the AC/DC track, and I definitely hear that (very short) rest there.
I don’t know enough about highland pipes (sadly even though having relatives in Edinburgh and watching buskers on the street there), but my sense is that the 3 drone pipes are always active (duh) but the chanter or chanters have some sort of ‘off’ position.
But maybe in a skilled hand, a glottal stop and grace note can be almost the same thing.
I must admit I did not watch the AC/DC video until just now. But to me it sounds like those pipe rests are accomplished via the mixing board - they are extremely clean and tight without any variation in pitch at all.
The Irish uillean pipes have mechanisms to stop the drones and regulators, and there is a technique to stop the chanter as well by closing all the holes and stopping the end against the leg, possible because played in a seated position.
But for the Highland pipes all drones and the chanter play continuously until the end of the song, and the player practices long and hard to learn how to stop cleanly with minimal pitch bend. I don’t think even a skilled player can stop as cleanly as in the recording.
I must admit, I have never played any form of bag pipe. So I certainly could be wrong. But I do enjoy Celtic music, have listened to a lot, and have dreamed of picking up the pipes, and so have read about them. Much of the stylistic musical ornamentation has arisen due to the inability of pipes to stop cleanly - hence the extensive use of grace notes.
But this is all rather pedantic. Your patch sounds amazing either way. Even if I am right about rests, your patch is very impressive, strongly evoking the sound of the pipes. And you certainly can/should make the patch do whatever you want to achieve whatever musical effect you want.
You’ve clearly studied the highland bagpipes more than me, so I’m enjoying the pedantry.
Now I’m in a mental rabbit hole, because your analysis makes a lot of sense but it begs the question of how the passage was recorded so that the drones play through while the chanter makes a hard stop. You play the flute; I have had the challenge/frustration of trying to mic up oboes, clarinets etc in a live context. We both know how the sound sprays everywhere, so I don’t see how you would decently isolate the drone from chanter.
Tape splice and a reverb on the drone (as much as the drone can be isolated) to carry thru that sixteenth note rest – that’s my best guess as to how this might have been approached in 1975,
Okay, wait – this good! From:
Bagpipes
While jamming on new songs in the studio, co-producer George Young (the older brother of Angus and Malcolm) recalled that Bon Scott had once been in a pipe band and encouraged the band to experiment with incorporating bagpipes into the song. Scott left the studio that day and returned with a set of bagpipes purchased at a Park Street music store at what was an extortionately high price (AU$479) at the time. Bassist Mark Evans would later muse that the amount “would have bought two Strats”.[9] Simply putting the pipe-set together proved tricky, and it became apparent Scott had never played the instrument before, having in fact been a drummer in the aforementioned pipe band.[2] Nonetheless, Scott taught himself to play well enough to record and perform the song (initially with the help of tape loops).
However, playing the song live was made difficult by the fact that the whole band would have to tune to the drone pipe. Thus the song, though iconic of the band’s early repertoire, was probably played live no more than 30 times.[9] The last occasion was in 1976, following an incident where Scott set down the pipe-set at the corner of a stage during a concert at St Albans High School in St Albans, Victoria, Australia, and they were destroyed by fans.[2][10] Subsequent (relatively rare) live performances employed a recording of the song’s bagpipe track or an extended guitar solo by Angus Young.[3]
but there are some nice ideas in there
I’ve added an envelope for the Chanter and Patchmaster controls to tune the three drones and switch just the drones of and on. I’ve got the drones tuned (roughly, because it sounds better) to A3, A4 and A5 (220, 440 and 880hz).