For many years I’ve never been able to think of birthday gifts to ask for, but that is definitely changed now that VCV Rack exists.
I am thinking of expanding my setup with some hardware. I won’t have loads of money to spend, so I need to make a choice. I am in doubt whether it is more useful to invest in a Beatstep Pro to use as an external sequencer, or in a Behringer Neutron to integrate a hardware synth in the setup. Both are reasonably priced and I’ve seen others use them to great effect. The upcoming Midilar system also looks very, very cool, but I have no idea about the price tag yet, and I already own two Novation Launch Kontrol XL controllers, which cover most of my ‘knob-twisting needs’.
If you happen to be someone who owns a Beatstep Pro and a Behringer Neutron, or something similar, what would you advice to invest in first?
Another thought: Why not starting with a small Eurorack case, an ES-8 and a module you like.
Well, ok, you could integrate a Behringer Neutron into an Eurorack too
Well, that would be awesome, but for now I am trying to stay away from Eurocrack, because I know it will be a bottomless money pit. I am very tempted though, and I’ve been looking at affordable ‘Eurorack starter kits’, but affordable in this context still looks quite expensive to me.
The ES-8 for example, is already well beyond what I can afford to spend on my ‘hobby’.
If you want into eurorack, but are afraid it will become a money pit (which it did for me), then I suggest semi-modular or ‘fixed’ modular systems. I sold off all my individual modules and bought the Make Noise 0-Coast and endorphin.es SHUTTLE system. If you can save up for the SHUTTLE system, then I highly recommend it, especially for someone also using a DAW or Rack, since Shuttle Control is an incredible USB/MIDI/CV converter. That said, I also have the BSP, and you can’t go wrong with that. If it matters to you, then you may want to snatch a black version now, as they were low in inventory the last time I looked.
Hehe, you are both ‘enablers’. Saving up for a semi-modular system that works by itself but that I can also expand on later is a very tempting idea. That is one reason why I was leaning towards the neutron, which is probably not as flexible as the 0-Coast or the SHUTTLE system, but within the price range that I was looking for.
Do you have any of the paid for VCVRack modules? They might be worth your money (though I’m not in the financial position to buy any myself). MSCHack as some “Pro” modules coming soon that Jaynothin has been testing. They seem very good.
Yes, I think I bought all of the paid VCV modules. I haven’t actually used all of them, but I mostly bought them to support development, and they are well within my regular budget.
I also bought the commercial ML Modules (Analog sequencer is one of my favourites), as well as some others, such as Floats (another one of my favourites). Basically, all the ones I really wanted, I already bought. By now that would probably have bought me the neutron , but I have zero regrets.
ask yourself: why do you really want hardware? and what is the best use of your money? is there anything that hardware can do for you that you can’t do in software?
That is a very fair and good question. I really want to give hardware synths a try at some point, but I struggle to come up with the exact reason why.
I guess one thing is that I prefer being able to turn some knobs on a controller rather than doing things with a mouse, but with the midi controllers such as the ones I already have, and with the upcoming support for midi mapping a hardware synth wouldn’t really add to that.
From that perspective a BSP still makes sense though, because it would add something in a way that is similar to what the Novation Launch control added for me in terms of more hands-on control over the software.
I think that Ablaut made a good point, which is true for every step we make. Ask yourself “why” and what will it bring to your setup\how will it enhance it.
I have both the BeatStep Pro and the Neutron, and I always loved messing around with knobs and faders and playing with everything so for me, it was something I knew had to happen. I believe that there is nothing like having the tactile experience while creating sounds\music. I’m coming from the “acoustic world” playing the drums and piano and such, and I believe in instruments, touching them, smelling them, having a conversation with them, something that, for me, cannot happen with a mouse. I love VCV Rack, it’s my alpha and omega, but I have to balance it with a tactile experience. The Midilar is great, and had enhanced my experience with VCV a lot. It’s also such a nice feeling having the sounds at the tip of your fingers. Also, with hardware, things are happening in real time. There is no latency. You turn a knob, and it reacted directly. Anyway, of course, this is how I feel about it, but you have to ask yourself if something like this can really contribute something. Although, if you won’t try you’ll never know…
The Neutron is great and at a good price point, and it can be a good choice for having a go with hardware and seeing if it’s something that can speak to you. Especially now, that we’re so close to rack 1.0, which will have midi out. The thing is with the Neutron is that you’ll need somehow to play\sequence it because it has no internal sequencer so maybe it worth the wait for Crave, also from Behringer, which is a sort of a Mother-32 kind of synth with a built-in sequencer.
If you’re thinking about using the BeatStep with VCV then it’s also an amazing tool, but again, you’ll have to take latency in consideration. It doesn’t have to be an issue though.
One thing about Eurorack is the limitation to just those modules I really own. This helps my creativity a lot. Also VCV Rack always starts my computer’s fans which adds some noise to each patch
And I like turning knobs.
However VCV Rack is such a huge warehouse filled with fantastic modules that a reasonable person would never buy hardware
Yep - this tactile thing may lead down unexpected paths. I have absolutely no musical background and just bought an acoustic guitar, practising 10 to 30 minutes a day. This is all VCV’s fault
I totally agree, and this is exactly what I love in the idea of modular. It’s an instrument, and sometimes even a whole band or an orchestra. It’s amazing!!!
I have been giving this some more thought, and I think it is this tactile experience that I’m after. That is basically the reason why I already bought not one, but two novation launch control XLs (not at the same time though). Being able to twist some actual buttons is just so more satisfying than having to do everything by mouse. I currently usually patch up loads of cables from the core midi-cc plugin to control elements of the patch where such control is interesting. With the upcoming midi-mapping in V1.0, this will only get better.
So, for similar reasons I would really like to give hardware a try, but at the same time I would like it to be a good companion to VCV Rack (as Omri describes in the edited title of this thread). Currently, after checking out some of the suggestions made, I have become less sure of the Neutron, and leaning more towards saving up for a bit longer until I can afford a Shuttle System. It looks like a great way to get acquainted more with hardware modular, and with the Shuttle Control it would integrate relatively easily with software.
I think that you are doing the right thing. You will enjoy the tactile experience, and getting a full system is a good idea. You can always switch and expand later, but you will get a fully functioning system, and that can make it easier at the beginning. If I could, I would get the Make Noise Shared System, but oh boy it’s a lot of money…
Yes, it really is. I think I can save up for the Shuttle system in a reasonable amount of time, and the Make Noise Shared System is a bit beyond what I actually want to spend on this at this point. And the Shuttle system looks like it would be loads of fun!
Thank you for asking this question! I’m also on a tight budget and have been scratching my head about options.
I’ve been coming at it from sort of the opposite direction - I’ve had hardware in mind for some time now but ever since seeing loopop’s ES-8 demo (below) I’m itching to include VCV Rack in my setup. I was planning to start with a Moog Grandmother, because I was a synth-obsessed teenager in the 70s who could never afford any gear, and the Grandmother would let me begin by learning how to emulate the sounds I grew up on and then see where I go after that. Ultimately I see myself heading down the more abstract generative/ambient/etc. path but I’d like to begin by learning the classic approach. So bridging the Grandmother to VCV Rack seems like a good way to combine the two.
However, with the budget I have in mind the Grandmother plus the ES-8 plus a basic Eurorack case would break my bank. And if the ES-8 is the only Eurorack module I want, the case seems like a waste.
So: is there a standalone more affordable ES-8 alternative I should be looking at?
And I guess a second question is: am I barking up the wrong tree by starting with the Grandmother? Would I better off skipping the analog step entirely and buying an affordable MIDI keyboard plus a bank of knobs and sliders like the Novation Launch Kontrol?
PS: Here’s that inspirational loopop ES-8 video, which I’m sure most of you have seen.
The AE Modular system is interesting and relatively inexpensive
For the cost of a couple of Eurorack modules you can get an entire system (330 to 460 euro). Downside is that it uses the small pin jacks like the Volca Modular. I like the way he has cost engineered the system. He is coming out with clones of the Mutable modules. I may actually buy his spring reverb module (33 euro) because I have a old tank I want to repurpose and I can wire my own connectors.
im a fan of faderfox devices . I picked up the pc12 and its such a solid set of knobs, I had the previous version that had the lid and it was the same, very high build quality. I’m really anxious for v1 to come out so that I can see the knobs moving in vcvrack when I move them on the pc12
So many interesting perspectives and experiences here, I feel the need to share my experience getting into eurorack and all this!
So in an attempt to escape using the computer to create music I got a Mother 32 and an Octatrack a few years back. Then discovered VCV which has not only become a great learning resource but also helped to clarify that modular is the right solution for me. One thing I have been doing recently is sampling VCV into my OT which quickly frees me a bit more from the computer. The M32 and OT helped me discover that I actually don’t enjoy the typical DAW / production method to create music anymore and helped to rediscover that awesome feeling I got messing with guitar pedals and four-track tape recorders in my teens. I have since been focusing my efforts on a live performance instrument workflow where I can jam, have fun in the moment and just track out a performance to produce a finished product. I should also mention that I come from playing guitar and piano, so having a tactile experience to create / affect sound is what seems natural and what excites me most.
So I purchased a Shuttle System which sadly arrived all beaten up (damaged box and scratches - definitely used) despite buying new, the retailer couldn’t explain what had happened. Having dropped the most ££££ I’ve ever spent on a single musical instrument purchase, I freaked out and took it as a sign to take a step back! After returning it and taking time to reflect I instead purchased a case and a morphagene, a few utility modules and some MI modules. After playing around for about a month with that I discovered that perhaps the Shuttle System would have been the right choice in the end, as the setup I just described, albeit fun, just kind of ended up producing stuff I could do in VCV Rack anyway (exception being the Morphagene) and the hands on ‘instrument’ aspect just wasn’t there.
What drew me to the Shuttle System in the first place was the overall sound of the oscillators, its design as a complete instrument and its ability to integrate with other gear like my Octatrack. My Mother 32 also gives me that sense of it being a playable instrument.
Now I’m back to saving up for a Shuttle System again.
If I have learned anything from all this, it’s that I prefer more complete modular instruments as opposed to taking on the role of designing my own system (in eurorack), especially given the expense, never ending, sheer amount of modules available. Perhaps it’s also a lack of experience in eurorack on my part. I’m also hoping I can spend less time researching individual modules and how they all fit together by taking this approach.
I love VCV Rack btw! It allows me to explore the world of modular and has helped me avoid that ridiculous room full of modules ‘eurocrack’ scenario and has actually led to me discovering more practical solutions for a live setup.