Do we still need the real thing?

well, I’m in the camp that completely disagrees, but it’s an ancient argument, and certainly not worth fighting about.

IMO, character do not depend of if is digital or analog , if is is the case , if you are recording a hardware in a digital format , you should lose the character in the recording

some of "hardware purist " that I have chance to talk to, asked to me if I cant hear the difference of sound of a hardware referring of a sampler which reproduce a digital wav file.

edited ohh I think I understand what you mean now, you say if you like the moog use a moog, it have its own character , and if you like the freak digital filter use it, then I agree with you, I think alll the vcv vcos (even the bad vcos) have its own character

I used to work in an office next door to a guy who wasmaking a digital amp-sim. He would spend an entire day listening to a recording of three notes played on guitar, alternating between a Vox AC-30 and his amp-sim, at full volume. Almost drove the rest of us crazy. When he was done we would give demos where someone would play live and we would switch between the plugin and the real amp. No one could sell when we switched. But it probably took him three months (or more) of full time work to get it that good.

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That’s not what we’re talking about. It’s more about the accuracy of a general purpose interpretive modeling system for analog circuits. I use the word interpretive with some trepidation; I don’t know a better word, but I need to make this distinct from a modeling system which can be fully optimized in some sort of compiler/generator.

The thing is that he was optimizing a particular application. I’m not questioning that that can be done. VCV is a somewhat different animal. It is far more general than the amp sim.

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Juat an example for a nice little real thing:

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The answer has been given by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, way before the invention of electricity:

In der Beschränkung zeigt sich erst der Meister, Und das Gesetz nur kann uns Freiheit geben.

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Funny thing, is that I think these modules are closer to what we do in VCV than the analog modules I had in mind. A lot of modular systems seem to be hybrid with modules that consist of ADCs, DACs, and tiny embedded computers even if one doesn’t hook a general purpose desktop or laptop computer to them.

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I’m fine with aliasing. Most of the times i can’t hear it :smiley:

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You’re lucky, I advice you to stay that way. Once you have trained yourself to hear it you can’t un-hear it, and it sounds horrible.

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Duke Ellington: “if it sounds good, it is good”

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I’ll bet you can hear it in wikipedia’s examples! Admittedly that’s at a 22k sample rate that we would never use:

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The Access Virus is one of the most popular and considered one of the best sounding hardware synths of all time.

The earlier models had significant aliasing and when they introduced the Ti versions they could have ‘fixed’ the aliasing but instead they chose to keep it as it played a part in the Virus sound that everyone loved.

Go figure…

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It’s definitely part of the classic Roland Supersaw sound. That’s why I kept it in “Saws” (my clone), but I did provide options to turn the aliasing off.

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So that’s the story behind Classic/Clean1/Clean2.

yep ;-). from the manual: “The original has an “interesting” approach to alias reduction. It makes no attempt to reduce the aliasing in the high frequencies, but it does have highpass filter tuned to the VCO frequency. This suppresses the really nasty alias tones that are below the fundamental. Combined with the detuned saws, the high frequency aliasing is said to add to the “airy” sound of the the Super-Saw.”

I’ve had about enough of that kind of language, mister!

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There’s two kinds of people: Those who go to Sun O)) concerts and actually like it when their ears start to bleed… and then the rest of us :laughing:

There does seem to be a taste these days for really ugly synthesizer sounds coupled with less-than-imaginative musicianship which I can’t fathom. It shows in preset design as well, sadly. Recently a very powerful synth engine has entered the field capable of making very musical timbres, but most of the presets are wubs and screeches. Why why why is this even a thing? Doesn’t beauty matter?

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Vital, by any chance? Anyways, I think it’s what dancefloors demand these days. ¯_(ツ)_/¯