Do we have any raga hand drum (Tabla) instrument modules?

k-chaffin · March 16, 2023, 2:23pm

I’m cross-linking to my demo patch that involves tabla emulation as well as generative raga or psuedoraga.

gael · March 16, 2023, 2:45pm

oh woah ! really nice all this informations !! deep to search indeed, but you open a lot of gates ! thanks a lot for your patch and your explanations !

shofb · March 17, 2023, 6:20am

Here is an electric table I created. It uses no samples; all sounds are generated. The low sounds used the PSI OP while the high (tabla) sounds are created by the Starling Via Meta. The attached patch file is different from the movie as I edited it to remove all references to paid modules. Let me know what you think. Enjoy

k-chaffin · March 17, 2023, 9:50am

I like the Markov chain rhythms. I’m not sure if I am hearing the drum sounds as you intended them. Mostly I hear something like handclaps and a bass note.

The patchstorage video will not play as it is marked private.

kwurqx · March 17, 2023, 10:02am

Well…since we already seem to have fallen into the rabbit hole of Physical Modeling…

I mentioned the pioneering work (and patents) on Waveguide Synthesis (and more) by Julius O. Smith III at ccrma,

One of the “byproducts” is:

The Synthesis ToolKit in C++ (STK)

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/stk/index.html

The Synthesis ToolKit in C++ (STK) is a set of open source audio signal processing and algorithmic synthesis classes written in the C++ programming language. STK was designed to facilitate rapid development of music synthesis and audio processing software, with an emphasis on cross-platform functionality, realtime control, ease of use, and educational example code. The Synthesis ToolKit is extremely portable (it’s mostly platform-independent C and C++ code), and it’s completely user-extensible (all source included, no unusual libraries, and no hidden drivers). We like to think that this increases the chances that our programs will still work in another 5-10 years. In fact, the ToolKit has been working continuously for nearly 20 years now. STK currently runs with realtime support (audio and MIDI) on Linux, Macintosh OS X, and Windows computer platforms. Generic, non-realtime support has been tested under NeXTStep, Sun, and other platforms and should work with any standard C++ compiler.

The Synthesis ToolKit in C++ (STK) can be found on Github:

There are several projects available there. One of wihich is:

Ragamatic

Alas, for the drums and Tabla, the readme states that they are sampled…not modeled.

Sitar and Drones are physical models.
Vocalize drums and Tabla drums are samples.

But the Ragamatic project and code (and for sure the STK) might contain useful info nonetheless…

github.com

thestk/stk/blob/master/projects/ragamatic/README-raga.txt

This is RagaMatic (tm) by Perry Cook.
It was written for Ken Steiglitz's birthday in 1999.

Sitar and Drones are physical models.
Vocalize drums and Tabla drums are samples.

In the RagaMatic directory, type:

> make

to compile and then

> Raga.bat

to have fun and achieve inner peace.

If you ask me, I think this band needs a flute player too.  If you
like, team up and see if you can add the flute model to the project.
This requires adding a few files to the Makefile, a few lines to the
ragamat.cpp file (including how the flute player should play, etc.),

This file has been truncated. show original

k-chaffin · March 17, 2023, 10:09am

Interesting. I wouldn’t want to go down this path without understanding the patents.

kwurqx · March 17, 2023, 10:51am

Very few of these patents are still in effect. Most are not. Not sure which. Chances of unknowingly infringing them seem low. I bet the library/code/licence files will mention these legal details where applicable.

It’s comparable to the way FM (PM) was patented and licenced to Yamaha. Patents that prevented others to innovate in that domain. Patents that, many years later, expired, so others could incorporate the domain into their innovations and products.

k-chaffin · March 17, 2023, 11:10am

I suppose the question is whether these open source SDKs and APIs are available in the Rack build tool chain, or is the expectation that a plugin would need to include the library as source code, if the licensing allows that.

I really have no interest in fooling with this, but others may.

kwurqx · March 17, 2023, 12:22pm

On the subject of using ‘external’ libraries. You may (or may not) know that the somewhat Tabla, but for sure indian (drone) music, related Seaside Modular Jawari plugin makes use of the free and open source DaisySP library, that also offers Physical Modelling.

DaisySP

A Powerful, Open Source DSP Library in C++

k-chaffin · March 17, 2023, 2:43pm

I did know that but had forgotten.

shofb · March 17, 2023, 3:54pm

Thanks, I didn’t know about the private thing. If you are hearing handclaps something is not right. Play the video (I fixed it) and tell me if that’s the same.

k-chaffin · March 17, 2023, 4:02pm

Yeah, the patch sounds nothing like the video. Are there any samples in the patch that require a specific sample rate?

LarsBjerregaard · March 17, 2023, 4:35pm

Yes, with all dependencies. For open source license compatibility see this and especially this.

shofb · March 17, 2023, 7:11pm

No as I said in the writeup there are no samples involved. I downloaded the patch and surprise it works fine on my system. I have no idea what could be happening.

k-chaffin · March 17, 2023, 7:24pm

Me neither.

k-chaffin · March 25, 2023, 4:33pm

Here is a new experiment in creating generative tabla accompaniment for a raga-ish sound,

Pseudoraga 2.vcv (10.2 KB)

I’m now loading Rack patch files with the audio device unselected. Be sure to select your audio device if you dlownload this patch. And, be sure to hit the master reset switch to get things in sync.

For this patch, I am creating a tabla drum track using 2 Ohmer Modules QuadPercs modules set up to use the free LinnDrum conga samples. The drum polyrhythm is created using the Sckitam MarokovSeq and the Meander clocked trigger outs. Also in the patch is the Seaside Modular Jawari module.

I’m very happy how this tabla-like sound turned out.

kwurqx · March 29, 2023, 6:07pm

Here another quick and dirty video and patch.

This one is an emulation of (hand)drums using a noise pulse as an Exciter into a (in this case 8 band and octave spaced) EQ feedback loop Resonator.

Adjust noise color, AHR VCA envelope, feedback amount, EQ levels, EQ Band frequencies, EQ bandwidth to taste for other sounds/behaviours. The highpass at the end is too tame some the way too low and loud lows…

20230329 POC EQ Feedback loop based Hand Drum(s).vcv (5.5 KB)

abluenautilus · April 2, 2023, 10:53am

So I’ve put together a sample-based tabla module. There’s a lot more to do, but I think there’s potential here. I have to add a whole bunch more rhythm patterns (thekas), but you can play the individual bols (drum sounds), sequence them from triggers, or just select the theka you want on the screen like an old-fashioned tabla machine.

k-chaffin · April 2, 2023, 11:46am

I like this and look forward to using it. It sounds fantastic. I love synergism! I have a few dozen patches that I will convert to use your module once it becomes available.

k-chaffin · April 11, 2023, 11:20am

The Seaside Modular Tala module that is in beta test sounds wonderful. I have converted all of my Proteus Indian scale sitar based patches to use Tala for the tabla patterns.

I would say this is the “solution” to the original question I asked, but I will leave this topic open as there may be more to say on this topic.