Dark Theme Rack (Legal Fundamental Module Fork possible?)

Every patch? Swapping modules? Once more, I don’t understand.

Let’s say one or more of my VCV modules gets an update, I download it, next time I launch rack those updated modules will now have white panels, so I copy my saved dark panels over the new ones & relaunch, now every updated module in every patch will have a dark panel again. Don’t need to ‘go through every patch’ & no module swapping(?) required.

I’m not talking about the CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 related graphics and design stuff any longer. I understand and respect the decision to not have anything like this.

I accepted this. I asked for an exception to distribute the dark version of the panels. I did not get it. Fine.

Now I’m asking them what would be a consent for them to have dark fundamentals/core modules without usage of the graphics and design at all regarding and accepting the license. And the answers seems like: Don’t do it. We don’t like it. From the license point of view the GPL3 covers the code. So nobody could stop me doing this.

But that’s not what I want. I’d like to have consent and make them feel good about the solution provided.

I think their position is that it is not possible to create new designs for those modules that are not derivative in some way. Derivative does not just mean taking their SVG and modifying it in some way. A design can still be derivative if you start with a new blank document.

You can disagree with that position but it does mean that it’s highly unlikely that you will “have consent and make them feel good about the solution provided”.

It’s pretty clear that they don’t want you to do what you want to do with those modules so unless you are prepared to get into conflict about it (which you have stated you don’t) then you are probably better off focussing your efforts elsewhere.

Why not design some modules of your own?

1 Like

There is a license split. One for the code which is GPLv3 and one for the provided graphics and the overall design. There have been lenghty discussion about this. Topic is very clear for me. I asked for an exception. Not possible. That’s it.

So of course I can use the code and provide a fork with a Novel interface without ANY! of the provided graphics nor using any design that is related to how rack looks like right now. Would also mean, I’d probably break compatiblity with existing plugins, or just have a complete different design approach to Rack Core/Fundamentals and existing plugins.

Do I want to do this? Probably not. Maybe out of curiosity to experiment with a new custom interface. But not for arguing and stealing valueable time with the creators.

The most restrictive CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 for the Core Modules means I can’t use any of their design. The less restrictiv CC BY-NC 4.0 for the Component Library means I could create alternative versions of them and distributethem non commercially given the credits. But this is all discussion we don’t need.

The licensing is clear to me.

Is just want to have a dark theme. That’s it.

@theshoemaker, You are obviously very passionate about UI for those who find some of the current modules inaccessible for various reasons, and this should be applauded. With the energy and enthusiasm you have demonstrated in this thread, I am sure you could have a big positive impact for such users of vcv rack.

Have you considered channelling this enthusiasm into helping with improving the accessibility of third-party modules? Contacting the authors directly, or starting a post offering this very valuable service, could be a very effective way of you making a great improvement in this area. You may get varying responses, but I’m sure many authors will welcome your contributions and would be happy will to work with you. As independent do-it-all-yourself developers, accessible UI designs are often not in the same skill set as producing the modules, you have these skills.

May I suggest looking at current patches posted, on this forum, youtube, Facebook, etc to see what commonly used modules you could have am impact on, whilst I appreciate this is not the same as those provided by VCV, you may find many modules are used more often, and hence your contribution to the community would be more beneficial to the community.

From someone with poor eyesight, thank you for caring.

7 Likes

Actually if only the graphics are a licensing issue then is there potential for creating a completely non-graphical rack using a more English language (for its lingua franca value, not for colonial connotations) way of referencing objects and the links between them than plain JSON? And have it hookable so you can build whatever front end you want on to it if you do want to go down a graphical route whether it be dark theme, 3D for VR, whatever?

1 Like

It seems that to a large extent it’s not really about UI, it’s about creating an obstacle to forks such as the one that happened last year from getting a free ride on an established brand name.

It would definitely be beneficial to the community to have a libre, neutral, visibly different, tasteful, unbranded alternative to the branded assets, like how Debian used to have its own branding for Mozilla software to avoid legal disputes.

Personally, I entirely allow edits to my modules… If someone wants to make a high-contrast version, they’re welcome! But I don’t plan to maintain one myself, it’s a hobby project.

1 Like

That is a very good Idea! Actually never tought about this, but you can cite me for other developers who need help on this. I’m open for offering my help in designing panels. Dark and light themed versions.

So if someone needs help with this just contact me. The thing is I have a very specific taste about design colors and dark themes. So my preference is to customize. At least have a dark background in the app. That’s a starting point.

I’ve been unhappy with commercial products for the lack of customizability in this area. The closest one I like is modular grid from Bitwig. Still not what Rack is.

This is how my dev environment looks like for example.

Everything. Phone. MacOS. Browser. Everything.

and then there is Rack… To end this discussion and focus on the good parts. I’ll abandon RRackmodules and just use them when necessary locally. Sorry for all the other guys who want to have them. At least I can share the fork of rack-v1 with the dark background with the settings in the code.

I hope this is considered legal. If not, please tell me. Then I also obey and stop doing anything in this regard.

3 Likes

So you wouldn’t mind if i created a dark themed version of your modules? They have a very specific artistic touch I probably wouldn’t stick to. Or maybe. Just let me have a look. I think we can stop discussions here and focus on a new thread where I offer to work on plates. Btw. I just started at the weekend to use Inkscape. So bear with me. I normally also do just simplistic designs which more or less relate to material design at https://material.io/

I’ll always be a Kai Krause fan at heart, to me there’s tremendous value in ornate and playful interfaces, toy-like contraptions meant to inspire.

Everyone is free to edit my designs any way they want, so long as my signature logo is removed (because I don’t sign things I didn’t create myself). I don’t plan to accept any of them to be built-in officially into my plugin however: if I need to update a module, and the author of the alternate faceplate is no longer active, the burden of maintenance would be shifted back on me (or I would have to remove the alternate, which would piss off users). I think most plugin authors would feel the same.

1 Like

I’d most likely use them as they do stand out somewhat on my mostly dark rack:

Not that they’re a problem as is, it’s just white panels I can’t abide, not a problem in hardware (reflective), but like staring at a light in software (emissive). Modular Fungi Lights Off helps with white panel modules that I use rarely and hence can’t be bothered to edit, would recommend that to others with similar vision issues.

3 Likes

Maybe in the context of this thread it’s useful to show what Modular Fungi Lights Off does:

4 Likes

@Vortico Is that a suitable way to add theming from an official plugin from the store? Just thinking out loud. Would a Faceplate plugin be okay, where users can load their custom skins during runtime loaded from the settings?

2 Likes

I think their position is that it is not possible to create new designs for those modules that are not derivative in some way. Derivative does not just mean taking their SVG and modifying it in some way. A design can still be derivative if you start with a new blank document.

This may quickly escalate to Apple style of philosophy, where rounded box is their own unique invention, and all other phones cannot be shaped that way. I mean, the simpler the design the less you are able to even argue its genuinity.

I’m not taking sides here, I’m just talking about sane principles.

3 Likes

I think there is more to it than that. Non designers tend to think that the design part of modules = what it looks like = the graphics = the SVGs.

I can only speak for myself here but when I was designing MixMaster, the graphics/SVGs part was less than 10% of the design job. The time spent on research, planning, feature set definition, layout, UX/usability considerations and specifications accounted for a good 90% of the job (I’m just talking about part as designer here, not Marc’s coding).

So by that reckoning, someone could make a completely different set of SVGs, but the design could still be considered 90% derivative.

6 Likes

Huge difference between a fully featured, complex mixer (thank you as always, superb bit of kit) and a stand alone oscillator or envelope generator though.

2 Likes

Yes agreed - when you just look at one oscillator or envelope. But I’m sure Wes didn’t look at the core, fundamental and commercial modules in isolation like that - he would have looked at them as a set and needed to come up with a resolved design system that worked consistently across all those different types of module.

Design is how it looks. the CC is exactly for this. I think that’s the isse here. No one want’s to protect the artwork, but the time spent for UX. UX is not part of the CC we are talking about assets. How it looks like. Not how long it took to get there.

Like I said. Custom design would be fine for me, figuring out my own way of what good UX means.

There’s a lot more to good design than how something looks.

3 Likes

Can’t help but feel that if the same amount of effort was put into a dark option for fundamental modules as has gone into discussing it that this conversation would be over.

Perhaps someone can make a dark fundamental work-a-like collection with sliders instead of knobs, knobs instead of sliders, buttons instead of switches etc, maybe that would be ok legally. I no longer care, I know enough to be able to modify things to suit my vision issues, others may not be so lucky though.

The design is done, all people are asking for is a dark option for VCV as provided by others, I really don’t see what the problem is and I’m sure I’m not alone.

3 Likes