Ctrl-Z issues in vst/ableton?

Working in a Rack VST patch I can’t seem to get Ctrl-Z undo to work; it always registers as an Ableton undo instead. Other common shortcuts like copy/paste are working within Rack VST. Anyone else experience this?

I can reproduce this in Ableton.

However with VCV VST loaded in Reason and Bitwig, ctrl-z works as expected.

Thanks for checking and confirming Eurikon. I suppose I’ll wait for everything to calm down before reporting it.

Ableton Live by default doesn’t pass through all keystrokes to active plugin windows. There are flags that can be set in Options.txt, a text file you can create in the Live preferences folder.

**EnsureKeyMessagesForPlugins (Windows only)**

Line to add to Options.txt file: -_EnsureKeyMessagesForPlugins

This option solves a problem with certain VST plug-ins (such as NI's Reaktor), where keyboard data does not reach the plug-in.

See this here:

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The list of available Live 11 Options.txt options.

Wow thanks so much! I figured it might be an issue larger than just Rack given other VSTs do the same thing, and you’ve just confirmed it. Will be trying this fix later on.

In doing further research it may be that the EnsureKeyMessagesForPlugins may not be available for Live 11 & Live 11 Suite.

I’ve run into keyboard issues like this long ago with VCV 0.6 and 1.0. My Seq++ wants to use keys that rack is already using. In stand alone rack it it possible to grab them anyway, BUT…

I found that it was a bad idea on my part to try and “steal” keys that are commonly already used. The user experience is kind of bad. My “solution” was to make all the keys in Seq++ re-mappable (a good feature anyway).

If I were doing it again today, I would for sure not use a commonly used key (like ctrl-z, for example) in a default keymapping. Especially if the VCV plugin doesn’t allow you to re-map.

My post title was a misnomer as I’m actually on mac (Ableton 10 though) and I just confirmed the command isn’t working, bummer.

As a non-programmer asking you experts, is this something that could be feasibly addressed/worked around by VCV if I report it? Or should I consider it an impassable issue with Ableton that I should learn to live with?

oh! are you wanting ctrl-z to be VCV under rather than ableton undo? That’s in interesting question (and not what I was assuming before).

plugin undo vs host undo isn’t something I now much about. A little google tells me I’m not the only one.

The ideal situation would be if VST supported some kind of plugin undo, then VCV could implement that. I suspect VST doesn’t have a way to do that.

Can you use the VCV Edit menu to get to undo/redo?

Exactly Squinky. Trying to use the shortcut within Rack VST gets highjacked by Ableton; I can however use the VCV menu to undo. As a non-programmer it’s curious to me why the other shortcuts work within the VST (e.g. copy/paste) but just not Undo?

Chaircrusher’s post made me realize though that I have other VSTs that also can’t ctrl-z and some that can, which in my non-programmer mind suggests there is a bit of code that can make it work?

My understanding is that undo works on some plugins because you are actually undoing things that Ableton itself did, and already knows how to undo. But @staircrusher knows much more about Ableton than I do.

As I said my GUESS (easily wrong) is that there isn’t a general solution to this issue. A semi solution would be if VCV could re-map it’s keys to “something else”, but even that would be a exercise for the user that wouldn’t be too fun.

You might wait until the VCV 2.0 chatter dies down, then post this again with a title like “VCV Undo does not play nice with VST hosts like Ableton”, and tag Vortico (VCV author) on it. Unless I’m missing something (quite possible) this is an interesting problem.

LOL. As it happens I have to rip up the carpet on my basement stairs at some point because a couple of steps are broken. But I’m assuming this was a typo.

I’d suggest e-mailing support@vcvrack.com just to register the issue. I don’t think that will make something happen short term, but best get your issue in the queue.

I’m betting support@vcvrack.com is completely snowed under with e-mails. I don’t know what resources @vortico has devoted to it but considering how many noobs have bought Rack in the last week, it has to be daunting.

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Thanks much for both your input. Yeah i’m reluctant to report anything right now with the current storm especially with a relatively niche issue so I’ll wait and might report it a bit later.

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This was something I actually reported some weeks back during developer testing so I think they probably know about it already - but wouldn’t do any harm to submit another report once things have quietened down a bit if it hasn’t been resolved by then.

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I remember when RRP (Reason rack plugin) came out a year or so back,
and it didn’t flip the Rack with the TAB key, which was in every user’s muscle memory for ages.

They (Reason software company) first wanted to justify it with something in the line of “the host/daw is in control of mouse focus”.
But that didn’t get much sympathy from the community, eventually they made it work like: as long as the user is in the active Reason VST window, the mouse focus is tied to the Reason VST and it’s shortcuts.