Are devs leaving? (minor thread broken out from other one)

( Don’t want to hijack the Lindenberg thread, so just moving over to a new thread for that reason. )

I agree with @Bill_Yarkakar_XVIII and @main.tenant that there is a healthy ecosystem of new devs to take of the slack. Lots of good stuff. However I do think it’s true that in general the old devs have become much less active. I’m sure they all have different reasons.

Some of the devs I think of as major devs in VCV 0.6 and 1.0 are devs like Impromptu, Bogaudio, Vult, Frozen Wasteland, Stoermelder, (myself), Lindenberg, and others. These devs are either gone, have not put things in the 2.0 library, or are up to date, but haven’t made many or any new modules in a long time.

I don’t think there’s anything sinister going on, nor do I think this this is a particularly “salty” observation. Anyway, nice to see that the Lindenberg modules are likely coming back.

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Still around and kicking :slight_smile: although a bit quieter.

@steve and I started two new utility modules in MindMeld, and on the weekend I ported the CloudSeed VST to VCV Rack (just the engine for now, no knobs yet); if ever I can get the CPU down, it might get released.

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I think that the rate of new module development going down is not a bad thing as long as new modules are innovative ans add new capabilities to Rack. It is getting more and more difficult to find modules that do a certain thing. There are many modules that I have never tried. There are more than I have time to try.

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At the beginning of my module development journey I focussed on the “easy” modules.

Now the easy stuff is done, and so every new module takes much more effort, time, and also learnings.

Actually I’m fascinated by building small hardware for my new and also for my existing modules.

Yes, it’s the long and winding road …

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I can understand being a developer, particularly an open source developer, is a lot of work without huge rewards. I also think many developers have released paid modules and then not made enough money out of them to justify devoting the time to support and new work.

There’s also the ‘low hanging fruit’ reason - there’s a working set of modules that are ‘good enough,’ and a limit to the number of truly ‘new’ things to try. I don’t know if it’s even possible to come up with a better FM operator than Kitchen Sink. I would love it if @modlfo turned loose his modeling mojo on FM with feedback paths. The usable range of modulation is smaller than with real analog FM.And yes I know, at its root, FM is more commonly a digital thing from the beginning, with John Chowning.

I just know that I spent a lot of time with Serge VCOs and there was a range of sounds with mutual FM at higher mod indexes that were completely different than what you get with Kitchen Sink etc. I always wondered if the difference was that discrete 1-sample delays on FM inputs was fundamentally different than analog feedback between oscillators. Analog feedback is continuous, not discrete. To paraphrase Rex Probe, digital FM is math, analog FM is setting up a racetrack for electrons, and you can’t model electrons in realtime.

Which is to say Kitchen Sink and FMOp are as good as e.g. a DX7, but there’s another FM sound to chase.

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I should add that I left VCV development and use for a year but I have been back for almost a year now. I can say that in addition to a policy protest, the major reason I left was because I was told that my module would probably have to be rewritten for V2 but no one could say what would have to change and when V2 might release. So, I waited until V2 released to come back and test the waters as to whether I was willing to make some massive re-write. I was astounded to find that I had to make 0 changes to get my module to build and execute properly in V2 standalone and only the minor resource caching issue (fonts etc.) for VST usage.

I am not a DAW user these days, but since it was required that V2 plugins be able to run in the Pro VST, I spent a substantial amount of money to upgrade my Ableton Live Suite to the current level. But when I found that my plugin/module works fine in the VST as long as I followed the porting guidelines, I have not touched Ableton in months. I came to Rack from Ableton and have no interest in going back to a DAW for my work.

So, I think there could be many developers leave if it was announced that everyone was going to have to redevelop everything for V3. Hopefully, just a recompile is necessary.

I still keep my eye on the ethics guideline policy and if that was allowed to be abused, I would probably leave again. I hope that does not happen. Just being honest here.

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There’s a lot of cool stuff that’s in Ableton Live that pairs well with VCVRack. Have you tried sending Meander output through a CV-MIDI module and record clips in Live? I find that a great workflow, particularly on my older laptop. I can make a MIDI only patch, capture the output in Live, then I can edit the MIDI and use Ableton devices or VSTs to play the MIDI.

Another fun trick is to send MIDI from Live into Rack, transform it, then record it back into Live.

And I’m probably not the first person to suggest you could have used a much less expensive DAW as a VST host for testing.

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I “own” a Reaper license, which is about $70, but you can use it for free for testing.

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It’s just a personal preference of where I want to spend my time.

When I upgraded Ableton for V2 VST testing, there were no well founded recommendations for what to use and I had Ableton and was well familiar with it. I also thought that since I would have to spend a lot of time in the DAW testing my module, it would be worth the money.

This all is not important. It is just part of my story.

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It’s important BECAUSE it’s part of your story! :smile:

I just meant that the DAW part is not an important part of my story.

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I’m reluctant to voice this, but the thing most likely to drive me away from VCV devolopment and community is toxic behavior, from anyone. That was a big part of my leaving for a year.

I want this company and community to be a friendly, encouraging, helpful, enabling, respectful and kind environment.

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I’m waiting to find a internet forum without unpleasant people. The internet lacks the personal accountability and real-world risk of getting your nose punched that the real world provides.

This community site is better than most. I’ve yet to see someone get salty here that couldn’t be talked down. I also think @vortico et all lurk here and aren’t afraid to delete posts that violate their terms of use. I’d have to go back and read the rules but I think they boil down to “don’t be a butt.”

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If there are no bugs, then at some point software can (in most cases) be considered “done”.

It’s not like we don’t have enough modules to make infinite possible sounds with already :smiley:

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In terms of MindMeld, our modules tend to be made to ‘fill a hole’, where we feel either what’s currently available isn’t quite fulfilling our needs (which led to the MixMaster ‘family’ for example) or doesn’t exist yet at all (like ShapeMaster and BassMaster).

We’ve been quiet for a while mainly because there were no obvious holes we felt we needed to fill and we certainly needed a good break after the marathon that was ShapeMaster. Someone came to us recently with an idea though that we think will genuinely offer something different so we are working with them on that.

I think it’s probably just a natural evolution though where some earlier Rack devs move on to new things and new devs come onto the scene - nothing really unexpected or wrong with that, it’s just life - people’s interests tend to change over time. Also not surprising that devs who were originally very prolific tend to slow down a bit later on.

I’m currently working with Pyer on the complete redesign of the Surge modules for the Surge XT release which will hopefully be later this year. Can’t say too much about that except I think it’s going to make a significant impact when it drops with some new stuff not seen in Rack before. I expect it will be something like 30+ modules.

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Mix-etc Masters are the bee’s knees @steve and @marc_boule . Definitely plugged a hole in the one -stop solution to mix down a track. Very close to a real mixing desk in so many ways that it is mind boggling. and the ShapeMaster (Pro) and BassMaster indeed are awesome additions that can plug many more holes (if there is such a thing in a modular synth o_O ) That is one row of my virtual Rack for just those mix/master down to final out devices… Custom template patches are great for that. All set up and ready to go for any patching session

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looking so much forward to those. Surge Rotary is one of my default send effects, great for Bass (Phil Lesh inspired)

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The only thing I thought the MindMeld MixMaster was missing had been there all along it just took me to finally RTFM to notice it! :slight_smile:

FWIW it was not immediately obvious to me how to get audio from the individual tracks into the Audio-16 for output to discrete DAW tracks, but then I finally noticed all the polyphonic outputs (and inputs) that had been staring at me in my stupid face all along. So maybe what I need is a new brain, but I don’t imagine any module you build could fix that for me.

As for module developers it’s a real shame that in the hardware eurorack world a number of big name makers like WMD and, just heard today Hexinverter, are finding it so hard to source components that they’re throwing in the towel on hardware modular. Could they be enticed over to VCV to share or sell some of their module concepts here? I have WMD’s Arpitecht and I’d love a VCV version to play with so I could try ideas out on it.

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use the direct outs on the mixer and run them through split modules into the audio-16?

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@Steve Thanks for your contribution to VCV. ShapeMaster Pro was one of my first paid modules. I use MindMeld on every single patch.

Speaking of plugging holes, I’ve often wished for a quad version of MixMaster. Perhaps a MixMaster Pro sometime in the future? Currently my quad patches require a huge row of modules for every stereo channel I mix in quad (a pair of Nysthi Quad panners for stereo input, plus a plethora of utility and routing modules). MixMaster in quad would make this so much cleaner.

I’d also love to see ShapeMaster Pro add CV control for individual columns or points on a curve. This way I can perform the shapes using an external MIDI controller.

Excited for the Surge XT release. Happy to beta test (Mac M1) if you need!

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