As much as I think her situation is important for VCV and the community, this thread isn’t super the place- especially if we actually want Andrew to engage with us and tell us what’s going on. This thread title is “2.5 months, anything new?” not “SCREEE, it’s been a year and a half since the original release date of 2.0!!!” so, I’d still like to keep it sort of civil and on topic. My previous complaining wasn’t just trashing Andrew, I made sure to have a point: That the lack of any updates combined with the not-really-OSS nature of rack is fueling tension in the community, and the response (or lack of) from Andrew has only really made those fires stronger. At the same time, we should all hold ourselves to higher standard, not just make low-blow jokes like this that only further the divide.
I did chat with Andrew briefly due to an issue he had with a post I made on a new modular software instrument (no names!) and it all ended up fine, but my last comment to him was saying I’ll let him get on with building Rack 2.0. His reply (from last Tuesday) ended with
No news about Rack v2, although we a major UI redesign in progress, while I work on Rack for DAWs.
So that would appear to be his current focus, Rack VST while letting designers sort out the v2.0 UI before he goes back to the codebase.
Thanks! It is unsurprising that the part of the project that touches the VST spec would turn out to be a time pit.
Incidentally he also added this, which I hadn’t thought much about
Yes, when Rack for DAWs is released (VST2 first, more formats later)…
and I’m wondering if the Steinberg rules around releasing VST2s, would let him do that rather than only releasing a VST3. It’s something to do with when you provably started development IIRC.
I suspect VCV Bridge is the work around here, as that was VST2
I thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiink (could well be wrong) there was a deadline to sign an open-ended VST2 SDK license with Steinberg that ended on October 2018 (which I’m sure Andrew did). Basically, after the deadline Steinberg just wouldn’t allow new developers to use the format, but if you got in before then you could use it in perpetuity.
What a huge mess that’s been (and still is)!
Phew, just remembered there was some deadline and hoping that wasn’t a (another) stumbling block
If it was, then the Host module wouldn’t have been possible to do. (The Steinberg VST2 licensing fiasco wasn’t just about making plugins, it also concerns making VST2 hosts.)
I agree
Sorry, I don’t know all the VST facts, or I would probably know the answer already ;-). But why care so much about VST 2 compatibility? Are there a lot of VSTs currently produced that are VST 2 and not also VST 3?
yeah, I’m not sure why the first target is vst2. Everything new is vst3. Anything else is just legacy
My vague impression is that the VST3 spec is a lot harder to write for, which may be exacerbated by the hard design problems something like Rack for DAWs poses (it’s more likely to push into dark corners than most plugins would).
JUCE has abstracted a lot of this out, which I suspect has helped with VST3 adoptation tremendously, but I highly doubt that Rack for DAWs is using (or maybe even could use) JUCE.
I don’t envy Andrew’s position at the moment. He’s a better-is-better programmer dealing with the one of the premier worse-is-better-but-also-worse SDKs (and some increasingly wild speculation and personal animus to boot). My best guess is that V2 is in good shape but he’s hitting issues with Rack for DAWs and doesn’t want to handle a lot of entitled Redditors going nuts if V2 comes out without Rack for DAWs.
I only caught a minute of Andrew on the discord voice chat last night before I had a phone call, and he was discussing various VST development issues. Maybe one of the other chat participants can share more about it.
Well, I feel bad about suggesting all sorts of draconian possibilities. It sounds like Andrew is burned out or otherwise in not a great place, mentally/emotionally, and that’s rough to go through.
Andrew, I highly recommend Prozac to take the edge off. 40mg is what I take. Talking to a doctor about it once, his opinion was “they should put it in the water.”
Plus there’s the whole last year. Anyone with a social bone in their body couldn’t come through that completely unscathed. Fortunately, I am antisocial, so I’m OK. My wife, not so much.
It’s good to hear from Andrew again, although I’m sad to hear him describe his near-burnout, as I would call it. It’s a very ambitious project, and I’m sure it hasn’t been helped by the pandemic and various social issues that’s been happening around it. I doubt he’ll read this, but if could give Andrew any advice it would be this:
- Focus on getting V2 out the door before the VST version. That will also give a longer porting time for plugins, and time to iron out the worst bugs and get initial feedback, which I think will be a good thing.
- Only after that, finish the work on getting the VST version done, and release it only when it’s done. I’m sure it’s a challenging project.
I’m of course not sure if the two can be de-coupled but I would hope so. Sure, this might disappoint some people expecting both to be released on same day, but that is far better than burnout, or near-infinite postponement, or too short porting and testing time, and it will generate positive PR and exitement for the project and the arrival of the VST version. It will also lessen the risk of impending burnout by biting off the task into two, and it will be a good mood and morale boost to get product released.
Prioritize your health Andrew, it’s more important than Rack! I’m always open for a confidential chat as well.
There was a release plan here with a rough roadmap:
But - complex software dev is never an exact science, and health/wellbeing and enjoying VCV (i.e. the great thing Andrew and the community already have built) are much more important than sticking to loose, old plans). And to achieve those in the long run, it might also be necessary to take more time out, or get help for certain areas - but that only Andrew and those involved closely can judge.
But, Fingers crossed the v2/VST release generates enough income for multiple people, so Andrew could employ friends/colleagues/community members to potentially take over the areas/parts that cause the biggest emotional/mental drain (i.e. I’d assume managing community communication & expectation management & the occasionally occurring drama around it play a large role when a project becomes as loved & successfull as VCV and can be difficult to deal with for everyone, on top of the technical challenges that VCV v2 & VST hold).
Thanks for the open words @Vortico in the dev blog - and I wish you all the best, and if there’s anything I/we can do to help, please don’t hesitate to reach out!
c.
First of all; best to Andrew. His health should come before anything else.
Before we all jump into new expectations concerning new names for rack2/vsts; I think it would be wise to take his last post as something serious. It has been apparent since v0.6 that his project is very ambitious and that he has had trouble making it collaborative. As both the VCV core and the library and community grow, this problem will only become bigger. Without a significant change in the way the VCV company functions we should not expect steady progress any time soon.
VCV Rack has immense value already, and it can grow even bigger. However, to do that properly means forming a team to hand oarts of the operation over to, this much has become clear. This will mean that beyond any direct health issues, Andrew will have to learn to open stuff up: create a way to onboard developers (at first maybe one, later dozens, who knows?). Also, it would n’t hurt if Andrew would hand over parts of the operation, of which communication seems the most urgent, considering both the long communication intervals and the tone of voice that can be handled better.
For me personally this will be the last time I check in to the community for a while. Saying goodbye to VCV for now, unless news of a serious business overhaul is announced. Love the project, but if it is not handled better it will drag a lot of people down instead of lifting the community up.
I’m going to continue using it because it’s cool, even if nothing ever gets updated again. It’s free, I can make music with it (ok that’s aspirational), people who know how can make and sell their own plugins or not or whatever 
There’s millions dead and countless lives upturned for months/years due to a pandemic and yet people seem desperate to inject drama into the story of a guy a bit late finishing the latest version of their music software. Perspective ffs.