I never donated for a plugin (shame on me), but bought quite a few even when there was an alternative. I personally would buy missing plugins, but I think that strongly depends on the financial situation. I am a developer and not a working musician and for me it’s more like “Do I buy a subharmonicon or should I try Substation first?” (Yes, I knew your Substitute) - so I think I am not in the target group for VCV VST. Or am I?
I think its pretty fair that the PRO license fee is being used to help pay for :
- development of the underlying library
- maintenance of the library
- this forum !
these are things all users and module developers benefit from… and mid/long term were always going to needs some kind of funding source.
and the simplest way for that was to add some ‘extra features’ to entice people. but the VST users are not going to be using more or less free modules than someone that did not pay… so I don’t think the vst user is benefitting more from modules than free users (that might use midi and audio loopback to integrate with their daw)
I do not see it being necessary for this funding source to be used for module developers, as it seems to me modules devs already have a couple of avenues for revenue.
a) paid modules - this will likely bring in most revenue, assuming there is demand. but of course, kind of ‘obligates’ support.
b) donation modules - there is a mechanism for this, perhaps it needs a bit more ‘promotion’ , but you can also ‘self promote’
for other software (non vcv), I use the donation route, via ko-fi.com… and it works pretty well. I chose this route (rather than payment or patreon) because i did not want to have a lot of support ‘obligation’ or force myself on timelines.
Basically, all I do is when i announce new software (on forums etc) , I thank people who have previously donated, and let everyone know how it kind of ‘motivates’ me (insert your own dialog with your community here)
in practice, of course, a lot of users do not make donations - but Ive found that many do, and also repeatedly (e.g. when I release something, I’ll get more donations) I like this model because it means I do not have obligations e.g. I can take a break for a while, also it means that users can pay what they can afford (and if that means nothing, that is fine too) , and some are very generous. also it means I can make keep it all open source so others can learn/build on it.
note: my software is a bit of a niche market, so Im not saying its exactly the same… but I do think ‘direct’ donations, and not being afraid to say that donations ‘really help’ etc.
btw: another thing, I’ve found nicely if you want to encourage donations…
run an ‘early access’ program… I give early access to new software to those that have donated in last 30 days (ko-fi feature) , so they get it a couple of weeks early - its also kind of like a beta, so they can give me feedback… again, helps build the idea of your community getting involved.
and of course, everyone still gets it for free in a timely manner 
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Just my $.02 as a developer. I (as all devs) have known for 2 years that the vst version would be a paid product. I have no problem with this because I believe I am supporting a larger ecosystem. With all due respect , i strongly disagree with Antonio (@synthi ) that the vst feature somehow diminishes the revolutionary aspects of vcv. In fact, with an upcoming update that allows the vst access to different audio devices, the prospect of integrating my guitar (and other live instruments) along with an unholy combination of vcv and my hardware modular all being manipulated with Bitwig’s grid is going to be amazing.
That said, I had a huge problem with projects like mi-rack and cardinal appropriating my work to make a few bucks
I’ve repeated this many times - there are things you can do, and things you should do. I have a pretty strong set of ethics (sorry Percy) and have no problem calling out the latter
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probably my negative relation with VSTs is because I’m a rumorist (noisemaker) (with my body 
) and not a musician ! 
Waiting for your compositions!
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Cardinal? Thought it was free?
It is, free and opensource, and doesn’t request any funding or payments in any form.
It is very much misinformation to say this @almostEric
miRack sure, this is a commercial product based on when Rack had BSD licensing.
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ok “appropriating my work to gratify their ego” is that better? lighten up dude
talk about lightening up, jeez. maybe don’t release opensource code if you don’t want your code to be used by the rest of the world …
I am well versed in open source (aka my day job), I thought I made my position pretty clear? I very understand the licenses that I used. Did you read the part about “could do/should do”?
@dreamer, I don’t want to get (further) off-topic in this thread, but does cardinal really not allow open-source developers to opt-out of having their modules included for whatever reason (as an ethical/courtesy matter, even if the license permits it)?
I see that it also post-processes plugin backgrounds to force a color change. Can developers opt out of that part of it?
Well no worries here, because Cardinal doesn’t accept GPLv3-only licensed code.
But you would’ve know this of course, since this is your day job and all.
Please refer for this to the project, I’m not going to play liaison and it’s wildly off-topic for this forum imho.
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ok
Can we keep it civil in here.
For an example, above @synthi and @almostEric disagreed about how useful the VST was to them, yet not once did they attack each other.
@almostEric I understand the frustration with those two projects.
It’s easy to get heated especially given this thread is talking about ethics, but I think if we’re not trying to suggest genuine ways forward, this thread will quickly turn ugly.
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Well said, @pgatt, and thanks for the reminder to everyone (myself included). These topics come with a lot of strong feelings attached.
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How about trying to actually answer the questions? You seem to want to go into a lot of detail about hypothetical VCV licensing concerns, but suddenly become quite evasive when questioned on subjects relating to your own agenda?
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I’m not sure we need to go into the agenda or otherwise of other software here. Can we keep it on track to discussing the model for VCV developers.
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Don’t want to interupt the discussion, but I just want to say that you have a really nice and calm way of moderating this discussion. 
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Appreciate that Markus.
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As an end-user, I’d love to see more developers releasing killer paid modules. I probably should be better about donating for free modules, but sometimes it just doesn’t occur to me, then if I do think about it, the question is: which ones? Who to donate to? I’m pretty sure I’ve donated to some developers (certainly bought lots of modules), but I’m probably in the minority. Paid modules kind of solve that problem. If they’re good, and reasonably priced, I almost prefer to pay for modules. I’m happy to support good work. Example: if Impromptu just released a “Clocked Pro” with a single extra output, and changed for it, I’d buy just support them because Clocked gets used all the time here.
So if one set of developer concerns had to do with providing support with a much larger user base and/or providing free modules for use in a commercial product, then I don’t think it would be the worst idea in the world to release paid modules. Maybe too many modules are free! But seriously, if one concern is the sheer number of users reporting issues, one way to address that may be to charge for modules. It will cut down the user base and probably attract more serious, experienced users. Something to think about.
@Aria_Salvatrice Nice seeing you back here even if briefly. Sorry to hear that the experience put you off making modules, but you should absolutely be made to feel welcome, as should any other LGBTQ+ Rack users or developers. If the forum is going to be moderated, it should be moderated towards inclusion. Anyway, your modules were creative, fun, wonderfully documented, and it’s shocking to me that someone who didn’t know C+ (prior) was able to put release things that were that good. Shocking in a good way of course. Thanks for them!
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